The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Questions and Where do I start?

Hmm where do I begin? I'm not even sure I put this in the correct forum although I am turning my truck into a hot rod. 1st a little info. I have a '57 long bed 3200 series with a 235 and a 4 speed. I've done a little research, but I'm still in the process of saving up to start the project.

Plans so far:
Lowering it a few inches just so it doesn't have that 4x4 look to it.
Engine swap to either a 427 or a 454.

I just don't want it to be some lame-o street rod with a brand new GM crate motor and aftermarket billet crap all over it aka "let's see how many things I can chrome on it before I look like a giant mirror." But I do need a few creature comforts...AC, PWR steering, disk brakes. I post on the HAMB and while traditional hot rods are the best in my opinion, I do need those few creature comforts and would prefer to not be scoffed at the hamb get togethers.

So here are my 1st couple of questions:

1)With the engine swap will I need to beef up that old frame? Box it? Just find a new frame all together?

2)Traction? What do I need to do to get traction with these trucks? I also have a 69 camaro with a 6 and it will sit down and go no sweat. But with this truck that back end is bouncing all over. I have a heavy foot and I'll be damned if I don't bounce it every time I'm driving from a stop sign up hill. I guess I'm really asking what I need to do to get all that power to the wheels and make sure it's there every time?

Moving the gas tank and removing the side spare. My truck has the bolt on the side of the bed spare and a tank in the cab. I've read a couple different threads about moving the gas tank under the bed, but does anybody have an idea for where to put the spare? I really hate it sitting on the side of the truck.

Transmission suggestions(pros/cons) for either engine choice?


I'm sure I'll think of more later but for now I'm all ears.

Welcome to the 'Bolt, Lil' Billy!
Sounds like you've got an idea of what direction you want to go with it.
As long as the frame is in good condition, no rust through or damage, you shouldn't have to add any additional beefing for the big block. The 3200 used the came frame as the 3600 3/4 ton, so it is a little heavier than a standard 1/2 ton to begin with. Any additional strengthenig wil depend on what you plan for the suspension, like if you plan on converting to an independent front end, either by subbing it or a crossmember style. Then some boxing would be required. No real need for a new frame, as it's already got the best frame that fits correctly under it.
Traction is going to be an issue with any truck, although it is more controllable with the longer wheelbase than a 3100 would be. Even my own 3200 can get a little squirrelly in the rear, and I'm running a 235 6 cylinder. There are traction bar kits (similar to the off road trucks) available, and perhaps adding some weight in the back would help.
Normally, on trucks without the side mount spare, the tire will go under the bed, behind the axle. But most kits that move the tank place it in the same spot. So there's an issue there. Plus, if you take the spare off the fender, you'll need a different fender without the cutout. Personally, I'd leave the tank where it is, safest spot for it really, and place the tire under the bed.
As for trans choice, I'd suggest either the TH400, perhaps with a Gear Vendors overdrive, or a 4L80E. The reason I say go automatic is the traction issue. The autos have enough slip in the torque converter to keep cpntrol over the power to the wheels on take off.

I could have sworn that I read the 3200 had just a longer version of the regular half ton frame. If it's the same frame as the 3600 no wonder it runs like a turd. Thanks for the trans suggestion but I'm going to run a manual in it. Any manual suggestions? I'd kinda like the truck to handle really crisp like my camaro. What kinda weight do I want to add to the rear? Yeah I know I'll need to get another fender without the cutout, but I'm also pondering turning it into a shortbed because I really don't like the longbed to begin with.

What GM did was use the basic 3/4 ton chassis, but with 1/2 ton springs and axles. If the truck was spec'd to have the heavy duty spring option, then they got the base 8 leaf 3/4 ton rear springs, too. Actually, a longer wheelbase should ride better than a short bed, not as choppy.
For that handling you want, you might take a look at some of the IFS systems out there, and perhaps converting the rear to a 4 link. There a few companies making complete frames that are alredy setup that way, too.
If you go with the stock springs, you might take a few leaves out to lower it and reduce the spring rate (better ride) add a good set of gas shocks and front and rear anti-sway bars. I've done that to mine (exept for the leaf removal, I prefer the stock hight) and it handles very well. I have no weight in the back, but you could use sand bags, placed either directly over the axle, or better yet, behind the axle for better traction. I will warn you, these trucks do have handling quirks. especially in the rain. The best way I can describe it is to use a Nascar analogy, Tight in, Loose off.
For tha trans, since you're considering a big block, perhaps an M21/22 from a GM muscle car, or perhaps maybe a World Class T5. You'll need somthing that'll handle the torque. If you're not worried about the $$$, check out G-Force. They manufacture 4 and 5 speeds for Nascar and NHRA racers, they'll handle just about anything you can hook up to them.

Sandbags? As in actual bags full of sand? I'm just making sure that I understand what you're saying. If you're really talking about bags full of sand, is there something useful(adds that needed weight and improves performance in some form) I could put back there instead of just bags of sand. I'm starting to think I'd be better off getting a 56 Ford truck instead.

I guess that really wasn't a god suggestion, was it. What would work better (and look better, too) would be to have a box or channel under the rear of the frame that you could use to place extra weight, like lead slugs, in the location to get the weight where you need it. You see stuff like that on race cars to get the handling the way they need it. I guess I thought sandbags 'cause I'm up in the North. We tend only to add weight during the winter months, and the weight of choice is sandbags. :hammering:

But is there anything useful that I could use to add the weight? I mean if I'm gonna add weight I've got a 500lb set of gym plates I'll throw back there. I don't know if I'm missing the point. I want this thing to be fast, taking out whatever would happen to pull up next to me at a stoplight...gm muscle a regular car(within good reason...I don't expect it to spank a vette lol). I naturally equate lighter with faster and thought the easiest way to get my truck faster would be bigger engine and less weight.

I really see no sense in adding weight to anything. Moving it ok but it is heavy enough now. Try to get traction by other means.

Billy ,
On mine I am never gonna use it to haul Coal or Feed , so I already have a Handmade tool box that weighs in at close to 200lb and I am mounting a fuel cell directly over the axle in the bed and mounting the battery inside the tool box to get more weight towards the rear.
sounds like you are like me and want it to RUN ...so you could mount your spare under the bed and a fuel cell in the bed hope these ideas help.
Tim

Those suggestions do help. I really don't ever plan on it being a "work truck." I'm a teacher and don't do more hauling other than car parts, or a motorcycle, or moving stuff to and from an apartment/house. My only qualm about a fuel cell in the bed is the potential for things to slide into it if I have the bed full of stuff.

Hi Billy,

It's going to be tough to make an antique truck blow a muscle car out of the water in a drag race. Muscle cars were built specifically for the drag strip, and then had bumpers installed to make them street legal.
Switching the rear suspension to a four-link or trailing arm type suspension would go a LONG way toward helping you hook up, as would changing the center of gravity toward the rear. Since the weight on the front half of the vehicle isn't normally going to move, the easy way of doing this is to add weight.
Making your vehicle lighter does make it easier to accelerate, but if you don't have traction, you won't accelerate either, so really you need to have the right weight in the right places, then build more horsepower into the vehicle to overcome the weight.
Another way to change the center of gravity is to raise the front of the vehicle, AKA gasser. By raising the center of gravity in the front, more weight is transferred to the rear under acceleration, but it doesn't actually change the mass of the vehicle. Another benefit of making a gasser out of it is that *****in' nostalgia look. That was the craze back in the 50's, so those guys on HAMB would probably give you mad kudos for doing it. It's also a pretty simple operation, since your truck already has a solid front axle, and all you would need to do is flip the axle over (since it's currently a drop axle), giving you probably 4" - 6" of lift.

I hate gassers. I understand their purpose, but I hate them. They look stupid to me and have no style. The last thing I want is to raise my truck. It sits too high for my tastes in stock form. Sounds like I just need to sell my truck and find something else...

You should put in an adjustable 4-link rear end with an adjustable pinion sunb. A set of coil over rear shocks and some adjustable rear shocks would help with traction. If you plan to race the truck on a regular basis you can look at 90/10 shocks as well. You could always pro street it and shove 30" wide rear tires in the back.

Posi rear would help. Keep the low gears and get an O.D. Definately disc brakes and suspension upgrade. If you want a race car, buy a vette.

Well, there's only so much you can do. You don't want to add weight, you don't want to change the c.g., and you want to beat anything that pulls up next to you at a stoplight . . . maybe you do need to just buy something else.
Try a Subaru WRX, put a big turbo on it then pay someone else to tune it, now there's style and originality.

Is there a reason you're giving me attitude in your last post Pauly? That's pretty insulting to suggest an import to a hot rod guy. I really don't appreciate it, especially when all I'm trying to do is learn about my truck and figure out what I can and can't do with it. And yes, your comment did get under my skin and it did bother me. As both a muscle car guy and a hot rod guy that's a slap in the face to suggest I buy an import and pay somebody to tune it. I don't know much about these trucks. Everything I've learned has been from reading books in bookstores about them and from this site, which came highly recommended by the folks at the HAMB. I'm really sorry that it seemed to irritate you that I don't know what this truck is/isn't capable of, that I didn't like some of your suggestions, and that I'm full of questions and want to know all the possible things and different ways that I could/couldn't do something to get my truck closer to what I see it as in my mind. I'm only 23 and I don't know a whole lot which is why I have so many questions. I do appreciate everyone chipping in with suggestions and telling me what will and won't work.

you will never get an old truck with a stock frame etc to out-handle or out-run a sports car.

Lil billy, I'm in the same boat. I too have a lot of questions. One quick suggestion will be the battery moved to the back. Also, i don't have much either which is why i try to ask as many questions as possible. Changing up the rear suspension will be the solution i would suggest. have you thought about baggin the truck? Try calling some suspension manufacturers and get their opinion. most of them have been a great resource for me. Also check out this guys truck.
http://images.google.com/imgres?img...ls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG

I know it's not the same year, but close. point is there is a lot of potential with your truck. Just take it one bolt at a time!! Good Luck!!

Interesting street rod that truck is. Doesn't that cut out make the bed useless though?

Well not totally useless. There is still room for the lawn chairs. Which is most likely the only thing that would be put in the back of a truck like that.

It is also running C4 IRS with AirRide and custom rocker arms. Hence the reason it is all sitting in the box. A solid rear axle won't sit that high.

The real question to ask yourself is, "how much time, money and talent do you have?" If you have no time, you need money and talent. If you have no money, you need time and talent. If you have no talent, you need time and money.
It's possible to achieve what you want, but it won't be cheap or easy.

Unless you add some wieght over the rear axle (or behind it), the only other possibilty would be to narrow the rear frame to accept wider tires.
I have a fuel cell behind the rear axle and absolutely hate it. I'm returning to the tank behind the seat (water leaks into the tank and I hate standing in my bed to fill the gas tank). But then you run into a fuel pickup issue with the tank behind the seat (and with the engine you plan, feeding enough fuel is essential). The stock fuel sender / pickup assembly will need some modification so you can get enough fuel volume to feed that big block.
As for a transmission, you are already encountering traction issues, so 700R4, 4L60 or 4L80 have a really low first gear (3.08) and if you couple that with a low ratio rear end and a torquey big block, you'll multiply the problem. Someone above mentioned a 350 or 400 turbo with an overdrive. Probably a better choice, since the 400 first gear ratio is 2.43. Couple the T400 with a taller rear end and you may reduce your traction problems a little. I don't know what cam you plan for that big block, but bigger cams require more converter stall and then you're right back to another traction issue. I will have a 3.23 rear end coupled with a T400 (no overdrive). I imagine even with this combo, the tires will still be squirely.
IMHO, you asked why GMCPauly gives you so much attitude, well look at your responses to him, you've basically poo-poo all of his suggestions. This is the Hipo section and modification is the name of the game (along with a good dose of cash), but your truck will never handle or accelerate car, so if you want something that will handle and accelerate like a car the get a car or pro street your truck.

The best thing you can do to get your truck off the line is go to a fully adjustable 4 bar and wider rear tires. Power to weight is the answer too, keep it as light as possible and have as much horsepower as possible. Then keep adjusting the 4 bar until it launches right, it can be done. Keep it stock looking, driving a "sleeper" on the street is a bunch of fun, I've done it.