The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 216 or 235

Hello stovebolters, I’m new here and I have a couple of questions I hope you all may help me with. I have a 1947 3100 with a 216 in it. It’s not the original as far as numbers matching. The thing is I’m in the process of registering it to my name and have to get a vin inspection from chp. Chp wants a running motor to do the inspection. I don’t want to invest in the 216 since it’s not the motor I want just to swap out later for a 235. I have a chance to buy a 235 and manual transmission from a 1955 Chevy truck but it has side mounts. Should I purchase the engine and invest in the 235 better and will I be able to convert to front mount? Thanks guys any help will be appropriate

This Tech Tip might help a little?

You would/could use your 216’s clutch housing and flywheel and clutch components.

You might want to relocate the water pump. I’ll add a link to the Tech Tip, unless someone beats me to it.
http://chev235guy.blogspot.com/search/label/Water%20Pump%20Relocation%20Adapter

Maybe someone else will comment on the front motor mount?
https://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/engines/motor_mount_front/index.html

Does the ID number on the title match the number on the ID plate on the hinge pillar, or the engine number stamped on the block to the rear of the distributor?
CHP may have a problem if the ID plate on the hinge pillar does not match the number on the title.

Thanks for the links. I’ll read them looks like the info I was looking for. As for the ID numbers on the door pillar, The previous owner removed the vin plate because it was falling off screws were all rusty. He put it away for safe keeping but lost it over time. That’s why now I’m dealing with the CHP. CHP asked for a letter from the previous owner explaining what happened to the vin plate, so I got a letter explaining. Hopefully they don’t have jumping through too many hoops. Lol. So I ended up buy the 235 from a 1955 truck along with the transmission and the guy was nice enough to even throw in a new radiator. All for $300. Now I’m going to try to make it fit my 1947 3100. Do any of you know if the 1955 radiator will fit into the 1947? Also does anyone have pic of drilling the holes for the front mount? Thank you guys. Really appreciate the help

Unless that is new with CHP, I see old cars and trucks getting brought in on trailers all the time. Also, they are usually back logged a long time out. Have you thought about a certified DMV VIN verifying person? Once they do it it's good for 30 days for the DMV.
Is the VIN plate on your title match like 52Carl asks.

@@@@ I just saw your update. You can not use a VIN verify. You have no VIN plate. CHP will issue you a Blue Tag VIN plate once you prove the trucks identity.
Good luck & keep us posted.

I never heard of CHP wanting a running engine either. Until I left the DMV and stopped by the local CHP office here in Santa Fe springs,
I asked the VIN inspecting officer what my next step would be to get my truck inspected and assigned a new VIN to complete the registration. That’s when he stated I would need a letter from previous owner explaining the lost VIN plate and that I would need to make a appointment and have a running motor. The funny thing is after talking to him for a while, it seemed like he wanted me to bring the truck in at that moment. I told him I didn’t have a trailer that I would have to rent a u haul. He even asked if one of my buddies would have a trailer to bring the truck by. He then asked me for my personal info and email also to email him pics of the truck and engine. I don’t know why the CHP officer would ask for all that at that time.
I’ve talked to certified DMV VIN verifying people. But they can’t help me since the VIN plate is missing. That’s the reason I’m dealing with CHP I don’t mind doing what they ask for but hopefully it’s not too many hoop I have to go through though.
Thanks guys

If you get a new vin, supplied by the CHP, they stamp it somewhere, then you can change engines at will.

Ed

47 Bomber,
I could "Guess " why they asked for ALL of the information. An old truck with NO V.I.N is considered A Crime. (Violation of 10751 (A) CA. Vehicle Code) Misdemeanor. I have seen a 1951 GMC 150 get ordered CRUSHED because the new owner could not prove the truck's identity. No VIN plate ect. CHP also are on very High alert because a large number are actually STOLEN.
Be very careful and have ALL of your ducks in a row.
Todd

Side Note those trucks years do not have a Secondary VIN or Partial. (Unlike newer cars & Trucks)
So it's Identity is solely relied on VIN plate and or original engine number (if it was used on title)

If the truck has been registered in CA in fairly recent years maybe they use the VIN number. Originally the trucks (at least in CA) were registered by the engine number. My 1952 hadn't been registered for 24 years when I acquired it. The pink slip still used the engine number as the ID. My truck did and still does have the VIN tag but that number was not originally used. Unfortunately my truck engine had been replaced with a 216 from 1953. This meant I had to have it verified by the CHP. They did not require a running vehicle but did require it to have everything required to run installed (i.e. must have engine, trans, etc. installed). I don't think they use the best and brightest at the CHP offices to do these checks. Despite having extensive documentation and info showing what years engine numbers were used in what year it took about a week after the initial inspection before I got the all clear to go to DMV to register the truck in my name and put it on non-op status. When they finally did this they did use the door VIN info for the official numbers.

I my neck of the woods ,across the border the ministry of transport can do a search of the owner to see the vehicles that are registered to him or her and from there they may be able to verify that the vehicle was indeed the one you purchased .

Being from California originally and growing up in the Bay Area I know exactly what you are talking about. My father had 70' GMC that was purchased in Arizona, the engine number was not on the title just the VIN. He had to make numerous trips to the DMV to get it straight. Here in Georgia you need only a bill of sale. For an older vehicle with no title only a State trooper or Deputy Sheriff need to verify the VIN. No issue after that, the State will produce you a new title with that VIN in your name.

In the past in CA the DMV would add their number plate to the body/door jam etc , all depends who you talk to at DMV or CHP. This is not something they do every day thus every time you ask you may get a completely different answer or counter person that is clueless. I had so much trouble with this very same issue I hired a company that does DMV leg work for private citizens, car dealerships etc. So check your local yellow pages for private company that can handle all this BS for you, well worth the fee. Best of luck

PS, when I did all this with my '53 I asked a local police officer for advise, he met me at my house, looked the truck over and filled out the DMV form, signed it and with that help I did not have to go to CHP.

Hello guys thank you all for the info.
So I just got back from the CHP for the 3rd time. After speaking with the CHP officer this time. He said he looked at the pictures I sent him, everthing looks ok so far. But he is still insisting I need a running engine, tranny hooked up and for it to start with a key and foot start. Then he can do the inspection.
My question now is since, I bought the 235 out of a 1955 (block # 3836233) Chevy truck. I want to swap out the engine take the 216 out and drop in the 235.
What parts am I giving to need? I know I can swap the 216 foot starter,bell housing,starter,fly wheel and clutch. Am I correct?
Will I need to purchase a wire harness for a 1947 216 or a 1955 235?
Will I be able to use the 216 fuel pump and distributor, and valve cover?
Also if any of you know how I can install the 235 without doing all the modifications yet. Just to get it running to satisfy the CHP.
I would like to do the full modifications at my own pace and not feel rushed by the CHP. I just want to swap the engine and bolt a transmission along with the wire harness to the engine.
Thank you all have a great day

The 216 foot starter,bell housing,starter,fly wheel and clutch will work. The wiring harness will be fine but make sure all the other components like the generator, voltage regulator, and coil are matching voltage. The starter will work fine on 6 or 12 volts. The 216 valve cover will work with a mounting kit that attaches to the rocker arm. The distributor will work if you switch the drive gear to a cast one vs. the forged in the 216. Someone else will have to speak for the fuel pump but likely it will work too. But lastly, I would check with other CHP offices about the need to actually have the truck running. As I mentioned earlier, this was not required for my CHP inspection on my 1952 3100.

When I did my '53 I didn't need to have the truck there, just paperwork. Also the 235 is the engine to use here, if it has the low water pump you'll need to purchase an adaptor (ebay) then use 216 style water pump, then it's a bolt-in.. Bellhousing, clutch, flywheel all good from the 216.

I called a few CHP office’s but they really wouldn’t help. I went to the CHP Office in Los Angeles. Officer took a look at my address and said I couldn’t do it there, that I had to have it done in the city nearest me, that I couldn’t shop around. These officers here are not the nicest people. very rude! I myself don’t understand why this officer want a running engine. I guess he just wants to put a rock in my shoe lol.
As far as the wire harness, did I read correctly? I could use the 1947 harness? If so, I would like to run the alternator. Would you recommend the one from classic parts. Items no. 52-022 $149.50 or Jim Carters. Items no. EL169E $215.00
Also if the starter on the 216 is bad. Should I get the 216 12volt starter? Since the 235 is 12volts. Duh I think I answered my own question there.lol have a great night guys thank you

Wouldn't it depend on which year 235 you're going to use? Do you have an engine code? Scrape around on the block to the right of the fuel pump.

I'm thinking you may need to account for the front engine mount and the water pump location as well. Late 50's 235's had side mounts to my knowledge. You may need to drill and tap the front of the block to accomodate a 216 motor mount. And for the water pump. "Pre-68 Dave's" water pump adapter plate can be used to locate your 216 short-shaft water pump to the correct position on the 235. Look it up on ebay.

The 216 fuel pump should work. Not sure about distributor. Sounds like a perfect time for electronic ignition

47 Bomber, I'm attaching an add for registration service in So Cal, similar to what I used in Modesto. May be worth a try to check them out, the company I used got the mess cleaned up in a couple days. Best of luck

https://needtags.com/spmore.php?spID=XE7sdsP1Jb

Jimerit Bolter, Were you also missing the VIN Plate? I’ve called a few places like the ad you posted. Thank you btw, Since I’m missing the VIN Plate, They couldn’t help me by law, because the have nothing to compare the title to. I’ll give this place a call tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

Green-98, the block no (3836233) I believe it’s a 1955 power glide. The head no (3836848) l think 1956?

What transmission would be a good match for this engine? I eventually want open drive out back.
I do what to install the 216 motor mount, but in the time being to satisfy the CHP, I want to just drill out 1/2” holes like in tech tips if possible.
CHP just wants a running motor, it doesn’t have to drive. they also want the transmission hooked up and for it to start with a key. Then he’ll issue the truck a California ID Number. After I get paperwork sorted, I’ll rebuild the engine and do the swap.

I see 2 water pump adapter kits on eBay, a Davis and a no name brand. The Davis is more expensive because of shipping.
Will any 1 of the 2 work well? So far I’ve installed the bell housing from the 216, and drilled the holes for the front motor mount. Ordered 12volt convention starter and battery cables. I’m going to order a clutch kit next, wire harness and alternator. Not sure what alternator yet.

Ok thanks tcledrman. I will order the pre 68 Dave adapter.

Ok I’m back, I ordered the water pump adapter from pre 68 Dave finally. I also cleaned the 235 engine from grease and oil to see if there are future leaks. I installed from the 216 the bell housing, fly wheel after resurfacing, new clutch kit and transmission out back. I also installed the thermostat housing w/new thermostat and gaskets, new 12volt conversion starter and drilled the holes for the front motor mount,The engine is now bolted to the frame. I also got a wire harness, alternator and other electrical parts.

On the front motor mount, are there 2 washers that go between the mount base and frame?
I’m also searching for the spacers and lock ring that go between the break pedal and clutch pedal. If you guy know where I can find them? For some reason I also cannot find the accelerator rod that goes from gas pedal to carburetor linkage? Thanks guys