The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Deadend holes in block

Hello, I did a quick search and found a topic matching my issue
But there wasn’t a conclusion
Just worked on cleaning the top of the block to put a rebuilt head, when I noticed two areas where it seams the coolant has dead ended from the head to block.
The new copper head gasket has these holes and so does the head but the block does not. It’s a 54’ or 59’ truck 235 and the head is an 848 head
Is this normal and should I proceed to install the head? Your advice is appreciated

Where are the holes located? Between the cylinders or ?????

Lou,

You might as well determine what head and block you have.

Post all your codes found at the locations shown here. We will then help you ID what you have.

They would be on the passenger side between 1-2 and 5-6

Normal. I don't know why GM did them that way. I lot of crud builds up there.

Crud builds up in many inconvenient places in poorly maintained engines.

3837004 block
3836838 head

Do we think that’s just crud build up and I should try to remove it? Pm and I’ll send you pics

3837004 = 55-57 235 block

Could the head code be 3836848 (56-63 235)?

What are head and block date casting codes?

Yes, crud can be removed - search the engine forum.
Maybe others will post block cleaning techniques?

I have a block and head, both from 1956 and this is how the block is cast. No coolant nor oil holes on the lifter side between 1 and 2 and 5 and 6. This is the second time I've had the engine apart and I've seen this both times. Once I used a fiber gasket and once I used a copper sandwich gasket. In fact, the cast iron has pitted at these points and I've considered building the areas up with silver bearing solder before putting it back in service the third time. I don't believe epoxy would hold given the hot water and all. But it is not an abnormality if you have a block/head 1956 or possibly newer. The one from 1959 (also has a head from 1959) is what I'm putting into service right now and honestly I didn't notice if it had the same scheme when I assembled it. But there are no worries...the 1956 engine has worked fine for me since the mid 70s.
Jon

Sorry typo
848 head

Don't worry about it at all, Lou. Just be careful to use a thin layer of good gasket sealer (like Permatex Aviation or similar) around the gasket holes top/bottom (all of them) and you will be fine. Given the gaskets I've seen out there I think I like the copper sandwich ones the best, but that's anyone's choice.
Jon

I've suspected that from the many casting and gasket changes over the life of the 18 bolt engines Chevy was not entirely pleased with the water circulation, and changed how the water (which always enters at the #1 jacket outer wall) returns to the head to adjust the temperature differential between the cylinders and chambers, but not able to see a trend or specific complaint.
Any ideas?

It’s hard for me to wrap my head around the holes in the head gasket if the do not intend to circulate the coolant from head to block there
Also head c 11 8 and B61 848 850
Block says k216 above the starter
But it’s pretty dirty

c 11 8
C 11 8 = March 11 1958

k216
K 21 6 = November 21 1956

This image shows the extra coolant passages on a 261.
Two holes between 1&2, and between 3&4, and between 5&6.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w7n5p4aq3ui2118/Photo%20Jun%2009%2C%201%2048%2057%20PM.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xk234eqquxwvgim/Photo%20Jun%2009%2C%201%2049%2003%20PM.jpg?dl=0

That looks like a high-pressure, 1954 and later, 235 block.
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/shop/1954truck/54ctsm0623.html

Can you post a photo of your head gasket, and a photo of your head gasket sitting in place on top of the block?

If all bolt holes line-up, and you have extra holes in the head gasket, are they located over the the locations for the extra coolant passages on the 261 (link given in a post above)?

By the way, there looks to be serious corrosion-erosion in several places on the mating-surface on the top of your block.

Tim, I will post a picture later when I get home from work
I did check the head and the head gasket does line up and has the extra holes in the gasket. I ordered a fel pro gasket pack for 1956 era truck
And correct, around the coolant holes there appears to be erosion around the holes. I did want to get the bottom end rebuilt when I had the head rebuilt, but at the time $1900 for the bottom end was too much for me to handle. I still have not found out why the PO stopped driving the truck in the 90's
I got this truck in 02' and barely got it running in late 2016
I took the head off because I had a mysterious overheating problem that the temp would only drop after turning the truck off and immediately restarting and revving a little and the temp would immediately drop back to 180.
I had a mechanic look at it and he found pressure in the head

Do you think I am OK to proceed as is? Thanks for your help

I have limited experience with engines - I have only rebuilt (and/or changed head gaskets) on 5 216/235/261 engines.

Wait to hear from others for opinions on the status of your block.

The reason I asked for photos of the head gasket is to see if you have a 261 head gasket.
Some engine-rebuild gasket-kits come with two head gaskets: one for a 235 and one for a 261.

What you're seeing is normal, Lou. I would proceed with no worries.

Here are two images of a 1956 block which along with the matching 1956 head I used for over 30 years. You can see the deadend spots between those 2 cylinders:

http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p535/JonGoodman/IMG_8582.jpg

http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p535/JonGoodman/IMG_8581.jpg

Now here are two images of the 1956 head showing two large water holes which go nowhere on this engine:

http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p535/JonGoodman/IMG_8585.jpg

http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p535/JonGoodman/IMG_8583.jpg

And here is a bona fide 235 head gasket (copper sandwich type) showing the large hole (of which there are 2) deadended into the block surface:

http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p535/JonGoodman/IMG_8586.jpg

The 235 gasket you receive will have holes there--it is the way the gasket is made. I have never seen a single one which didn't. They (the holes) will do nothing but should be sealed top/bottom (meaning at the block side and at the head side) before you install the head. I have seen water leaks if you fail to do this. Also please be certain to remember to re-torque your head after you warm the engine up and shut it off. Yes, you will get some erosion on the block here. This eroded part is what I have thought about filling with silver solder before the block is resurfaced. Sorry but I can't tell you if the 1959 block had the same thing. I didn't notice before assembling it, but if I had to guess I would say it was built exactly this same way. Both of these engines were removed as units and neither had been machined before I received them. The only repair I could identify on the 1959 engine was that the rear main seal had been changed for the neoprene type at some point or possibly it came from the factory that way.
Jon

Since I have the water pump off of the 1959 engine I was able to look up in there. This one has no water port between 1 and 2 cylinders, so I'm going to assume it is the same as the 1956.
Jon

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rqr49k1dpu67oeb/Photo%20Jun%2011%2C%2010%2000%2055%20PM.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0k9lxq64rgrq6cp/Photo%20Jun%2011%2C%2010%2002%2041%20PM.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e5iso25sbnhmce5/Photo%20Jun%2011%2C%2010%2002%2053%20PM.jpg?dl=0

Those links do not work.

If you are using a computer with a file/directory manager, try to attach photos.

AIUI the later the head gasket, the more "universal" its water passages will be - adding a hole when the engine doesn't have one is harmless, hence it has every hole ever used.
How many accurately dated pictures of deck surface/head surface can we show to indicate exactly when and where "extra" water transfer holes showed up (or were removed)?

Good answer/observation, panic

The links work by copy and paste