The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Valve seals are failing.

I bought a freshly rebuilt 230ci. Built by a race shop and original owner put 4000 miles on it and did a V8 SBC swap about a year ago. I have not run the engine on my run stand yet. Pulled the valve cover and everything is really clean. However, I found a teeny tiny spring broken off of the #6 exhaust umbrella seal and other seals are either torn or out of position. See photos.
So I have a list of questions.
1. Why did the seals fail?
2. Should I pull the head?
3. What style seals should I install?
4. The engine builder re-used the old valve springs but used shims. Should I buy new valve springs?
5. If I get new valve springs, will I need to break the cam in again?
You can see the exposed sping on the valve stem.

This exhaust seal is torn.

The #6 exhaust valve umbrella seal is out of place.

Another torn seal.

Those seals were damaged by the tool used to compress the valve spring during assembly. Someone didn't set the full-stroke distance correctly and it squashed the seals as the springs were compressed.

You can change the seals with a tool used to compress the valve springs with the head installed. Lisle, K-D, and several other tool manufacturers sell that one, and they are always on Ebay. You'll need to pack about 10 feet of 1/4" nylon rope into the cylinder through the spark plug hole and turn the crankshaft tight against the rope to keep the valves from falling down into the cylinder.

DO NOT use the small O ring seals under the split locks if you choose to reinstall the positive stem seals. Using both the OEM seals and the positive seals will starve the valve guides for lubrication. Some people even remove the sheet metal shrouds at the top of the valve springs when using positive stem seals.
Jerry

In one of your pics http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/l...Inspection/101_0042_zpsbi2nfqbc.jpg.html
It looks like a valve spring is not correctly placed , due to it sitting up on the shim .
If that is correct observation , then new springs may very well be in order.

Here's the kind I like:

http://www.carid.com/images/lisle/automotive-tools/ls16550.jpg

It allows you to compress the spring just enough to release the split keepers without going deep enough to damage the seals.

As long as the assembled height of the springs is correct, you probably don't need to replace them, unless you're planning to do a lot of high-RPM running.
Jerry

I agree with Jerry, the 230 has a very mild camshaft profile, so it's unlikely the springs were ever abused. New ones are cheap enough if you want peace of mind, but what you have will work just fine. If go with new springs, you should really measure the stem height, and set all the spring heights. It would require more or less shims per stack and another tool. http://www.rbssuperchargers.com/images_temp/1024771000WFLOWERS_001.JPG

Dusty pointed out what looks like an offset spring, most likely the shim has a bigger center hole then needed and it walked out sideways a bit, its nothing to worry about.

This is the type of seal you have,
http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server3...eals_LRB__42121.1362504429.1280.1280.jpg I like these greenish blue type, http://competitionproducts.com/images/CPS5325.gif.

Just be sure what ever you buy, it fits snuggly onto the head. I helped a fellow fix a smoking engine when the builder put loose fitting seals on it. The seal road up and down with the stem instead of clamping to the head. Measure the boss on the head to be sure you are getting the correct seal, more then likely it's .500".

Now you say this engine was built by a "race shop". Are you positive it has a stock lift camshaft in it?

It has an RV cam. Not sure what that means.

I honestly do not understand how the original O rings do anything. They do not keep oil off the top of the valve guide and they don't wipe the stem as it travels. Anyone?

The o-rings keep oil off the stem by diverting it away from the stem. Due to the design of the keepers, oil can run down through the keepers thus overloading the stem with oil. The o-ring is a way to divert oil off the stem pretty much by splashing it out of the way. The steel umbrella cap over the spring does the same thing with excess oil.

Those are positive type valve seals. They fit tight over the exposed section of the valve guide, above the the valve spring seat. So they were either damaged as HRL stated, OR, the lift of the aftermarket cam is causing the top spring retainer to contact the top of the valve seal. I would definitely find out what the lift of the cam is. Sometimes you have to cut the top of the valve guides down to create enough clearance for the seals. The other style seal (an umbrella type) installs over the valve stem and rides up and down with the valve. That is the type of seal I installed on my 235. The stock o-ring style seals don't do a very good job of keeping oil out of the valve guides.

Jay, if you need it I have a valve tool like the one Jerry posted. I'm sure you can find one locally, or should, but if not I'll send it to you...and if not in a hurry, I'll be in Columbia next Friday to see my sister. I'll help anyway I can.

OK- - - -I'm only going to say this one more time- - - -until you measure the valve lift, you're wasting a whole bunch of time and effort. By looking at the pictures, it seems you don't have nearly enough clearance between the bottom of the spring keeper and the top of the guides. I'm glad that "race shop" isn't building competition engines for me!
Jerry

Jerry,
This is all new stuff for me. I've never measured anything like that in my life. Do you suspect the bottom of the spring keeper might be contacting the valve guide? If that were the case then I would think the intake seals would be damaged from the contact. I certainly don't want to waste time.

It's a very simple check. Just find a weak spring to install on one intake and one exhaust, just enough tension to keep things in their proper relationship, and adjust the lash to zero like we discussed. Then roll the engine over by hand and check how close the retainer comes to the top of the valve guide. If one cylinder is OK, the rest of them should be also. The pictures you posted look like the retainers are getting awfully close to the guide tops!
Jerry