The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop AD Engine paint

I have searched the "engine" forum and can't find an answer so I'm posting this question:
I'm painting my engine while its still in the truck and can only find spray cans of the greyish color, I'm using Duplicolor "new Ford grey". I'd like to find the same color in a pint or quart, that would make it easier to apply in some areas, with a brush...less chance of overspray, mostly to use on the block.
Does the paint have to be specifically for an engine or can I go to my local auto parts/auto paint store and get them to make me up a quart that is the same color? I don't know much about paint, but I would assume that there would have to be some chemicals in it to be heat resistant... maybe I'm wrong. I would like to know before I go to the auto parts store and sound like an idiot!
Thanks in advance for the replies I know I will get!
Brad.

Duplicolor's 7272 Ford Gray 500 degree engine paint in spray cans is what I assume you are using. You can go with Bill Hirsch Engine Paint (google) and get the exact correct color (which is really not been agreed upon) and then you can get pints or quarts.

What I did for my test engine, was the same thing you are doing, THEN, spray some paint in the cap and brush it on if you want. Its alot cheaper than the alternatives. On my project engine, I went with Bill Hirsch. Much better paint color. Engines require touchup from time to time.

Do/did you use a primer under the finish coat?
If yes, what do/did you use?

Have you driven an engine that had that primer/paint application (how many miles/hours/years), and how did it hold up?

Thanks,

You might take a look at Jim Carter site, oldchevytrucks.com, look under paint section. Engines, manifolds. Grey, quarts, heat resistant, brushable.

Yeah, what he said! The best universal primer to use under engine paint is epoxy primer. It has the same 500 degree characteristics and sticks to rattle can and anything in between. I got that from the local PPG supplier.

I degreased with a steam Jenny, brushed on Ospho, after 24 hours I wiped it down with a rag wet with Ospho to remove the white chalky deposits, primed with Rustoleum High Temp engine primer, then painted with the dark gray engine paint from Thefillingstation.com.
Three years later and it still looks like new.

No I did not use a primer, I just thoroughly cleaned the block and then sprayed it with the rattle can, three coats.
Again my question, would normal automotive paint work, get a quart made up, or... does the paint have to be specifically made for an engine and the temperatures it runs at?
I want to be able to brush the paint on in the areas that are hard to reach with a spray can (engine is still in the truck)
Brad.

I painted my 1935 Chevy Coupe engine with Bill Hirsch Chevy Gray over 30 years ago and it still looks good. Cleaned everything with degreaser and lacquer thinner and brushed it on (no primer). It flows out nice without leaving any brush marks and touches up easy.

Mike B

Yes Brad. You need specific engine paint. It needs to be rated at 500 degrees. Otherwise it will deteriorate much faster.

If my engine gets to be 500°F.....I'm in deep dodo!!!

Make life simple, paint it with the correct factory color
for an AD engine, which is available only from The Filling
Station as Carl posted yesterday.
They were never primer before painting from the factory.
Here's Filling Station's Factory original shade gray paint
on a bare cast iron block and head and bare sheet metal
that is about five years old, and driven on regular basis.
She may not be the best dressed gal at the ball, but she still
turns a head or two:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/160748815
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/160748816

dg

Sorry, but I feel the need to add a differing opinion on the "factory correct shade of grade", which no one has documentation for:

https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=835373#Post835373

Me too Tim, Denny has a pretty engine there, but no way is that blueish gray even close to every other vendor that swears theirs is THE correct color. But really its not worth arguing over. Nobody has proof.

500 degree engine paint is insurance, and it also improves longevity of the paint over lower temp heat cycles. Get the proper engine paint and do it YOUR way.

not correct

Yeah, nobody ever said that Ford Gray is correct. Its what the OP painted his engine with. I did the same on my test engine just due to expedience. Its staying in the shop.

To the temperature debate, I agree with Denny that the engine in totality is never going to approach 500 degrees.

However, I would presume that the block surface near the exhaust manifold gets pretty doggone hot. Correct assumption?

Whatever it's rated for, the filling station paint has held up nicely.

As far as I know, it's a given that "engine paint" is 500 degrees. My Bill Hirsch engine paint is 500, even Duplicolor is 500. They do this for the reason you just mentioned.

I noticed in looking over Dennys blue gray that Bill Hirsch's has a blue tint to it as well but not nearly as pronounced. Depending on what kind of lighting you have in the shop, who knows what you are going to see. In any case, everyone can probably agree that Ford Gray is too light.

Tims response to his posted article above really tells the whole story in the clearest detail we have.

not correct

No such color
Maybe DE1611

Check out Lonnie's results

https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=819665

Do not make the mistake that thefillinstation.com's color has even a hint of blue in it, as it does not! It can be better described as "light black" rather than "dark gray".
Computers are horrible for judging colors.
The three original AD 216s which I have seen with my own eyes were even darker than that, and had no sheen to it. In areas where the paint was missing and was soaked with a layer of dirty oil, looked almost identical to the painted surface.
Carl

DG, you need to loosen a few stove bolts on the side cover to get that factory-correct leaky look.

Nice looking engine and color (color for a 216 - or low pressure 235).

Oh it's getting there Carl. I just wiped a little of the bulk
off cuz we had to part next to one of those $49,000 hot rods
last month at a cruse night.
They were all dressed in their evening gowns and old blue was
still in her house dress you know.
dg

Here’s a series of three still photos from the Chevrolet Engine Production Line that I
down loaded from a Jam Handy film. Not color, but we know it was gray and the shade
is definitely not light gray. The first picture is the one Lonnie used on his Photobucket
page of his painting session:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/159127645
This is right after the 216 was painted for my ’50, it’s definitely not light gray:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/160216333
In fact, to put it in a little better light here's a black and white for comparison:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/160755287
dg

You definitely see the contrast between the black dist cap and the engine. And the white shirt. Also the man standing near an engine appears to have light gray pants and the frames the engines appear to be the same gray as well.

The contrast/color in the B&W photos (colors shown as different shades of gray) makes it look as your engine and those engines are of very similar color.

It's pretty, but if there is no blue in the second picture, I have other problems. As a commercial print shop owner, I am very well aware of mixing all shades of gray and you should never see anything but black and white in any shade of gray.

In the engine photos back from the day, the black distributor cap is very telling. The color they used is right in between black and medium gray. But its like someone else said earlier, they didn't have controls on that color that were all that meaningful because I have seen stock engines in various different shades. It reminds me of the very same dilemma we have with interior colors.

Be happy with your choice and move on I guess. For our original poster, you can get pints, quarts and aerosol from The Filling Station if you like dark blue-gray, or a little milder gray-gray from Bill Hirsch in pints, quarts, and aerosol. That is what I would take away from this. The idea in the first place was a machinist gray I am sure.

All of the engines here are painted with Bill Hirsch...

http://devestechnet.com/Home/MorePix#enginepics

One could argue you see blue in them too, but like I said before it matters what your shop lighting is like when you take the picture, or how hard your cameras flash bounces off the paint.

What really counts is what makes you feel good when you raise
the hood, whether it was that way when it came from the factory
or not, ya see.....it really makes no real difference if that's
what pleases you.
Some feel light gray is nice some like charcoal gray some like
Ford gray or blue gray. Heck Orange & Black even looks good
to some? Each to his own, as long as you're getting some
pleasure out of you Stovebolt.

dg

d

My 235 is Chevy orange, and I like it.

....just my take. After 37 years of printing/finishing/dyeing and of trying to please some stylist on a shade she THINKS she wants call the grey/gray anything you want!

For me, I've chose the Plasti-Kote Universal Gray. It says on the can its an OEM color. Denny, you know how I am...so I called Plasti-Kote and ask them WHAT AND WHICH OEM color was it. After about 5 minutes on hold the guy comes back and tells me its and "average" of the OEM gray's at the time...but couldn't or didn't tell me what the "time" was.

As suggested, I like the #202 Universal Gray from Plasti kote and going to argue with any Friday night cruiser that says its not the original color. Now, take that

Wow I didn't think I would open up such a hotly debated subject!
I really appreciate everyone's opinions. As many said, if it pleases/looks good to the truck owner...well that's all that really matters.
I will continue to use the Duplicolor New Ford Grey as that's what I started with and it looks good to me. If I need to do any touch ups, I'll spray some of it into the cap and then brush it on.
The consensus seems to be that engine paint is different than "body" paint and that makes sense.
So again, thanks everyone for your replies.
Brad.

This happen every time

Part of stovebolt folklore

Same thing happens with Pertronix

Yeah, anytime things get dull around here all ya gotta do is
bring out the color charts.
Now Brad, how bout you ask about the interior colors???? That
orta keep thing lively thru the weekend.

dg

At least we have codes to argue over (and to confuse us) for the interior colors.

Deve, I recently layed my eyes on an original 55.2 with the original 235 in it. It still has remnants of the yellow 235 lettering on the valve cover. It was completely covered in the typical dirty oil grunge. As we cleaned off the grunge, the lighter gray paint started to show through. It looked remarkably similar to the medium gray in your pictures, but not similar to the grungy dirty oil film, which matches the paint on the three original 216's I have seen in person.
Do you have pictures of any original 216s with medium gray paint similar to what you are using?
Carl

I was kinda thinking it was time for another engine oil debate.

ZDDP

I do not have original pictures of any of our engines Carl. As a parts picker for Jim Carter for a few years, I saw MANY of these engines all over Kansas, Oklahoma and Missouri while in countless salvage yards. All the 216's and 235's were medium gray until 1955, then you would see blue, black, orange, sometimes medium gray but they were all over the place.

I know the VCCA fellow said Blue Gray but I would beg to differ. I chose the Bill Hirsch color because it was THE color I saw consistently in the salvage yards under all conditions. Cloudy, Sunny and all months of the year, the color was consistent with what we pulled out of original trucks. I am happy with my choice and apparently that's about as good as it gets!

It never ends.

Any truck that was put to rest in a "salvage yard" most likely had it engine rebuilt at least once and most likely several times. "Evidence" from a salvage yard is very suspect.

One would think that Gray is just a mix of Black and White. But this is not true for many paint applications. As it is a very flat range of gray. Many paint companies mix Gray with out Black some use left over colors of several batches to mix shade or tones of Gray.

Chevrolet may have been in the mode of mixing the engine Gray from leftovers.

But even if not it is very common to have a bit of Blue tint in a gray paint mix to bring up the tone.

If this might be so for the Chevrolet engine Gray even if a very slight amount to some in the right light it would appear with a slight blueish affect.
The one original engine I have seen to me while it is Gray does have a slight Blueish tinge with age and fading from time and washing whether or not this was stronger 60 years back I could not say.

I would prefer a not Black/White mix but more the very slight tinge of Blue effect in my Gray to stand out to the right eye. But I do not want a Blue engine.

One salvage yard yes Tim.. Hundreds, pulling engines in each one from every year since the 30's, you get to see the similarities, what has been repainted and what hasn't. We tore lots of these engines down for the manifolds, carbs, flywheels, etc, etc. So no, I am absolutely convinced the color I am using is correct to the very most minute detail. I do not worry about what everyone else thinks because I saw this with my own eyes.

Gray IS an absolute mix of black and white. As someone who mixes printers ink regularly I know, however, Black is a mix of what? White is a mix of what? So.. you are correct.. I really don't think Chevy had controls on the mixing process, or they were too wide. Meanwhile, I didn't see much difference in the salvage yards until 1955. Oil and dirt sandblasting the engine paint, then heat cycles would have a lot of affect. BUT.. not in places where none of this occurs. Behind the starter, fuel pump, etc, lots of places where I was able to actually see the colors. Some of these salvage yards had very nice trucks in them. Now those parts are on other people trucks!

And, Arizona, there IS a very slight blue tinge to Bill Hirsch but not unless you are looking for it. Check the link I mentioned earlier to see what Bill Hirsch paint looks like. I know what I know! LOL!