The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline leaf spring lube

Denny Graham mentioned awhile back that he used a product called ARGO chain and something lube on his leaf springs and he was very happy with the results. His 3600 rode like his new Silverado he said. He got it at a farm implement store. In Tucson I have found the John Deere dealer and I would like to know what you all recommend. Do you pry open between the leafs and spray? I have a 54 3600 with all new suspension parts. Thanks for the help.
Sharon

No Sharon, just put a cardboard on the floor under the spring
and spray the edges inside and out and it will wick in
between the leafs. Don't get the "chain" lube which is meant
for motorcycle chain. Those products are basically a heavy
grease and when the solvents evaporate it will leave a
sticky mess on the springs. The "chain & Cable" spray is a
light oil that will penetrate in between the leafs.
I could not find the Brand (AGCO) that my friend gave me but
at any of the big box stores you should be able to find this
product which I believe is the same thing.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Blaster-11-oz-B-laster-Chain-and-Cable-Lube-16-CCL/205851095

Point being, this isn't rocket science, it's not the brand,
so just about any lubricant that you can get to wick into
the spring will work better than nothing. Even mixing any
oil that you may have on the shelf with some thinner and
applied with a spray bottle I would think is gonna work
just fine also.
After soaking the springs I wiped the access off of the
outside and haven't noticed any thing dripping on the floor.
No matter what you use to lub them, it's going to get worked
out fairly soon. The teflon/delrin liners are a permanent
fix. I never though much about this in the past and was
satisfied running leaf springs dry, but as I said before,
I'm a convert now.
dg

Denny, This is good timing for me because I've got my springs apart for glass beading, cleaning and a light coat of paint. Have you noticed this lubricant attracting dirt into the springs?
Thanks,
Steve

FYI, In the early days of the automobile, some manufactures coated all the leafs in grease and wrapped the whole assembly in cloth to keep the grease in/dirt out.
The springs had a shorter life than dry springs and the practice was stopped.

It is recommended to not blast steel spring leaves because of stress risers.

I got some graphite paint to spray between leaves, comes in quarts or spray cans(handy).

Google 'graphite paint.'

Denny thanks so much for your great reply. I will start looking for the lube.
Sharon

Why not just spray the leaf springs with Liquid Wrench penetrating oil or WD 40?

Glass beading will reduce stress risers. Compresses the surface of the metal. The beads fracture before reaching the pressure that removes more than the rust on the surface.

Steve - I would recommend applying two coats of POR-15. It has excellent abrasion resistance and has a slick surface. Should work without having to lubricate the springs.

Steve, I’m sure that any lubricant, even the lightest oil is going to attract dirt. Over the
years that has been one of the reasons I’ve been running them dry. I think one has to
consider the life expectancy of a set of springs. Most of us tend to think that they will go
on forever, but the reality of it is that any metal part that is constantly being flexed is
eventually going to fatigue and fail. So….I suppose your question is, how much are we
reducing the life of the spring by attracting dirt to it? I don’t know, maybe someone else
has done the calculation.

Where did you get that information from Jim? I personally find it hard to believe that
would shorten the life of the spring. It does seem logical that they would have ended the
practice because of the expense. Although lubrication does improve the ride, a dry
spring will perform just fine without it.

Liquid Wrench and WD-40 are basically solvent such as kerosene, with a very, very
small amount of oil. Spray either one on something and come back the next morning
and it’s probably going to appear dry. The Chain and Cable lube or lube or motorcycle
chain has a lot more of the oil or grease that you want to get into the machine.

According to Eaton Detroit Spring, you shouldn’t paint or powder coat ‘between’ the
leafs. That makes sense to me, because as it works out from between the leafs the
pack will become loose.

There are as many opinions on restoration and maintenance of leaf springs as there are
people who use them. I’m just reporting the results that I’ve had and what I’ve recently
discovered. Arguing my way is the right way is as useless as arguing Religion, Politics
or which make car is the best.

dg

Wealth of info here. Thanks all for sharing on this subject. I might end up condemning my front springs. Seems they were in there a little to long and the pivot bolt sleeves were worn plumb through and egg shaped the spring eye. Great thread.

When I rebuilt my springs the first time, I used a grinder to clean up each leaf. My truck came from the Kansas's Flint hills area and was run really hard. The lower leafs dug into the ones above creating steps. These steps kept them from moving. I rounded over the edges so everything had a place to move. Before assembling, I greased each leaf with a heavy teflon, sticky grease that wouldn't run or drip no matter how hot it got. About a year later I decided to remove a couple of leafs from each pack so a I tore them apart. I was surprised to find rust back at each contact point in the pack. The grease was pushed out over time and they were back to being dry.

I then installed teflon liner under each leaf from front to back, it was a night and day difference in ride. All the banging and noise was gone, the harsh bumps were smoother out, and long trips no longer wear me down.

When I replaced the front springs, I tore them apart and added the liners before installing them. The stuff I bought is black with small sides to keep it in place. It's been there ten or more years now. A spring shop can punch holes in the ends so you can add the teflon buttons if you don't want the liners. I tried to drill mine but didn't have a bit strong enough to touch them.

Joe

I did not get to ride in my panel before I took the springs apart so I really can't compare. However, I used the Teflon liners. The ones Joe describes sounds just like mine.
I can attest to the fact that even though the panel is big, tall and heavy it does ride pretty doggone good. I drove it to get BBQ today and my friend rode with me and commented on how well it rode. Maybe its the iners??? maybe not??
It must ride decent though. Victoria rode with me in it to the Reunion in Kansas City and never complained about the ride!!!

My vote is... I like the liners.

Who says you can't teach and old dog......!
I'm pretty sure I've become a convert thanks to the ride me
and Bruce took last week. He talked me into juicing up the
leaves with the cable lube. Like Joe posted, even a heavy
grease will work out at the contact points of the leaf pack.
I'm anticipating giving mine a squirt every couple of weeks,
which is gonna get old before summer is over for sure.

So....I'm pretty sure now that I'm gonna opt for a set of
liners when I finally get the nerve up to pull the rest of the
truck off the frame for the full restoration.
Teflon seems to be the buzz word whenever I skim through
discussions about leaf springs. But Mike Eaton seems to have a
little different take on what material is best. He can say it
much better than I can so I'll shut my yap and link ya to it,
that is, if you care to see another take on the subject:
http://www.eatondetroitspring.com/leaflubricantleaflinerstipinserts/

dg

Hi Denny,
In my opinion, the degree of precision in jeweled watch movements is pretty close to magic. Oil used in mechanical watches is a matter of endless and occasionally manic debate. Around 20 years ago a friend who also repairs watches and I were talking and he told me if I wanted a great alternative to expensive oil just shake the WD40 can really well for a few minutes and spray an inch or so into a pimiento jar or other small glass jar. Let this sit undisturbed for a week and you'll see 2 layers. At the bottom will be a cloudy whitish layer containing paraffin and other trash (possibly even some water for all we know) and at the top will be what you want...a very fine oil mixed with a petroleum byproduct of some variety. Don't know what it is but it floats in this mixture. When it dries, it will have just the amount of lubrication you need. I've used it in watches, sewing machines, typewriters, electric motors, cameras...all sorts of things. And it works just like he said it would. Just keep away from the bottom layer.

Now, for the flip side: Since then I've watched all sorts of people use WD40. In fact, every time I see anyone pick up a can of WD40, I stop and watch them. Male, female, young, old, smart, not so smart. It doesn't matter. Most of them simply pick the can up and start spraying immediately, occasionally comically jiggling the can a bit as they spray. I'll bet you've seen people do this, too. If not, please start watching. Remember what is at the bottom of the jar? Well, this comes out first unless you shake the can and it will until that bottom layer has all been sprayed out. But I can't believe the WD40 people want that to happen.

Jon

I shake all the spray cans I use whether it's paint or oil or
grease or whatever. The only way to get anything to come out
in a spray is by liberal use of thinners. That's the prime
reason rattle can spray paint gets its bad name, it's thin
and doesn't cover like canned paints.
Restoring old radios and vintage test equipment held my
interest for many years and when the need for a fine lubricant
came up I use Turbine oil. It's highly refined and will not
dry out over time. Chevron and others make it for commercial
use and it's used a lot in aviation also. The stuff that I've
been using for years is Norvey Turbine oil. Works great for
instrument jewels, small motor and air tool bearings.
Wouldn't recommend it for leaf springs at about $6 an ounce.

dg

WD40 is great for cleaning. It also shines up my old 47 truck. I believe one of the main ingredients is fish oil. Who cares, not using it for high end lube.
Anyone like Triflow?? I do.

But you don't want it in places like a speedo jewel or cable
because of the Teflon. Probably work just great in a leaf
spring, at least for a little while. Still it's about a buck an
ounce most places.
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/160199883/large
dg

From Eaton's website: "Using graphite between the leaves would certainly reduce friction without harming the steel like grease does."

I got a "oops" message on their tutorial links, but how does grease harm steel? I can see the grime collecting & making a rubbing compound- is this the harm?

This "harm " must be mechanical (over chemical).

Brad

No one has been able to figure that one out Brad. Why don't
you post that question to Mike Eaton on his forum and see if
he can be more specific about it, maybe even steer you to some
documentation.
According to what I get from his statement, the grease
chemically reacts with 5160 alloy. His test is that heavy
trucks that leak steering gear fluid onto front springs cause
the springs to eventually fail. But.....I've not been able to
verify that from any other source. If that were true you would
think that one of the metallurgical sites would have discussed
that phenomenon at sometime.
And graphite would certainly reduce the friction but just like
grease, oil, Teflon or any other dust or loose fiber suspended
in a fluid, it wouldn't stay between the leafs for very long.
A least not where the leafs were in contact with each other
where they moved. That was the reasoning behind the wrapped
springs years ago, that is, the retention of the lubricant.

dg

Purpose(s) of spring-wraps/gaiters: speculation from H.A.M.B.ers

My speculation is:
- to keep the lubricant in, and
- to keep the dirt out, and
- to look nice

(an all-in-one wrapping)

Back in the 50's, we were distributors for Conoco and we got a new Chek Chart Lubrication manuals every year. I still remember the recommendation was lubricate passenger car springs to maintain a smooth, but to leave commercial truck springs dry because the springs required the the friction. Until we phased out springs in favor of air ride over 30 years, we never oiled springs and service manuals warned against it. In those days trucks leaked a lot of oil, and oily springs broke. It was particularly dangerous on the steering axle because the wrap leaf didn't always hold it. Trailer suspensions have torque rods to keep the axle in place.

I still have 9 dry vans on spring ride and steering axles are still spring ride. DOT regulations tolerate zero oil leaks. I don't remember when we last broke a spring.