The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts 2 piece wheel came apart this morning

I had a two piece wheel come apart on me this morning. I hit a substantial pot hole and the ring hit someone's house. I have either the Firestone RH or RHP wheels. Not the RH-5's.

It was a front wheels and luckily I was slowing down to take a turn. This was 2 miles after I was on the interstate running 55! The wheels had just been apart, sandblasted and painted. Had about 70 miles on them!

Hopeful that Tango will ship me 4 three piece wheels!

Hy RDomeck, I am glad you are okay, and I hope the rest of your birthday is better, Happy Birthday!

Ouch!
Have any pictures?
How did they look for rust or other damage, or do you think it wasn't seated right or assembled properly?

Glad you're O.K. Randy! Wish you would've taken the rims with you,when you bought the C.O.E.! Happy B'Day!

I would strongly suspect that it was the wrong lock ring for the wheel. Back when we still changed tube required tires on a daily basis, we always checked to see that they fit right. I would suppose that there are very few tire guys left that know what they are supposed to look like. And those of us that are left are getting too frail to be changing tires. Something else we always looked for was the mark on the tire that is an indicator that the tire is seated properly.

Goodyear still has the same safety bulletin they had out in the 80's when we sold and ran Goodyear exclusively on our fleet. I think the bulletin is still very much on point.

http://www.goodyeartrucktires.com/pdf/resources/service-manual/Retread_S3_V.pdf

The wheels did not have any issues for the 2 years I drove on them. Probably 2-3k miles. I dismounted them. Marked them in sets. Sand blasted, painted, and reassembled with the same matching parts.

It does make me question how they were disassembled and put back together. Is it likely that they would have held together of 70 miles and then came apart after hitting a big hole? Trying to decide if I should replace the three that are 2 piece with 3 piece ones!

Thanks for your help. I have mounted plenty of one piece wheels and plenty of Model T split rims, but nothing like these things before.

Also, probably not the case here, but how rusty were they before they were sandblasted? I had an old Widow Maker back in the early 80's that I sent out to be sandblasted. Once I got it back, I checked it over, thought about it, and threw it in the scrap pile.

It was the prettiest looking piece there, lol.

Seeing that the safety rings are such a tight fit, I would be suspect of how they were reinstalled too. Unless a WHOLE lot of metal was removed from both pieces during blasting, its' hard to imagine that ring popping out from anything short of nuclear force.

Randy,

I think about this happening all the time.

What were your tires inflated to? What exactly happened - I assume the loud noise was your first clue, followed by your truck keeling to one side? How far did the ring travel?

This is both professional research and morbid curiosity. Thanks for posting.

-Michael

The wheels appear to be in good shape. Like I said I had personally put 2-3k miles on them myself. The wheels parts where marked, but I was not the one to mark them. I can't say for certain that they were marked correctly, but can only assume that they were.

I did do a close inspection of them once they came back from blasting. I did not see any issues with them and wouldn't have put them back into service if I did see any issues. The last time I checked the tire pressures they were all at 65 lbs. I had been checking them routinely and did not have any of them loosing any pressure so I stopped checking them as often.

Fairly simple what happened. I hit a pot hole. Right front of the truck went down and steering wheel pulled to the right. I stopped. I got out and looked. I said O gosh Darn or something to that effect. I saw the outer ring missing and started to look for said ring. I found an older gentleman holding the ring in his hand because it had struck his new "expensive" house. I apologized. He handed my my ring and I walked to the shop to grab a truck, a jack, and a lug wrench.... You can probably figure out the rest of the story.

Working on finding ll three piece wheels. Although I'm starting to wonder if I don't switch to 19.5" one piece wheels for safety sake?

My fleet logged millions of miles on 2 piece wheels until I started making the switch to 22.5 tires in the late 70's. We never had a lock ring to come off in all these miles. We did however have 22.5 tires to suddenly lose air on hard cornering on the steering axle because tubeless wheels of the 70's and earlier did not have a large enough bead seating area. We avoided 3 piece wheels because they were more prone to rust when exposed to salted roads.

We had a lot of guys changing tires in those day that didn't have enough schooling to really be called literate. But they were smart enough to make sure the GG ring was equidistant all the way round the bead. And they knew to check that the the lock ring properly seated. We didn't get a tire cage until we were running 22.5 tires.

I think that anyone who wants to condemn multi piece wheels by nature should read the Goodyear manual carefully. I think it explains why there are failures. It doesn't address the RH-5° wheels. All we used was 7.5 x 20 wheels back in those days and the RH-5° wheels were not built that wide and appeared only on 1 1/2 and 2 ton trucks. They were a bad idea when they came out and they have gotten worse with age.

A lot of the early 19.5 wheels were constructed with a small area for the bead to seat and they were not designed for radial tires.

Something I didn't see mentioned is the split in the ring should be opposite the slot for the valve stem in the wheel.

The outer ring on this wheel is not split. It has two places opposite each other that do not have the lip to hold it on. You work it on by placing the ring onto the wheel about 120 degree's and using a pry bar to pull the rest of the wheel around. It causes the ring to go egg shaped enough to get the ring over the lip. Once it is on you have to use a pry bar to cause it to be egg shaped to get it off the rim...

I'll see if I can post a photo of the ring and wheel. I think at a minimum I will swap wheels and tires around to have 3 piece on the front. If a wheel comes apart on the rear it will at least be captured and not fly off and hit something or someone!

I know you said in the first post it is not but that last description almost sounds like an RH-5° wheel, and if so then no real surprise it let go. Curious to see some pictures of it.

For reference this is what one looks like in cross section. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/96LV_PnM-bC97_4AoWK_G9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

I'm certain that my wheels are not RH5's like is in the link above. The ring mounts at the outer edge of the rim. I'll post a photo tomorrow or Monday when I get into the shop!

Its not a RH-5° because if they were to come apart, they would blow to the inside when mounted on the steering axle. What kind of truck are we talking about? What you are describing sounds like the setup on a 15" pickup wheel. If that is the kind you are talking about, you can't just hook an air chuck to them. You have to tap them while you first inflate them to get the lock ring to seat where it is supposed to. I've never seen that kind of setup on anything larger than a 3/4 ton pickup, but then again, I haven't seen everything.

Some photo's. http://s1006.photobucket.com/user/r...hevy%202%20ton%20Truck?sort=3&page=1

You will see that I placed post it notes 180 degree's apart in the ring. Those two area's do not have a lip and I believe are meant to slip the ring over the wheel. You can also see a notch about 15-20 degree's from one of those post it notes to use a pry to bring the ring the rest of the way onto thew wheel!

That is the same kind of wheel that was used on pickups with 15" wheels in the 50's. I was not aware that they had been used on 20" during the 40's. Having a Kentool lock ring tool is almost a must with these type.

http://www.kentool.com/index.php/products/lock-ring-tools/truck-lock-ring-remover-detail

We lift ring up until it just clears the wheel and then tap it with a hammer and it will jump right off. If someone tries to pry them off, they will bend. We always laid them on flat concrete ti make sure they weren't bent. Mounting them is done by prying them on It is also usually necessary to put a little air into them and tap them to seat properly. They have to be centered to seat properly They are not as dangerous as a RH-5° because you can see whats going on, but it is not as safe as the
type of lock rings that the bead actually goes over the lock ring.

I have a 41 and a 46 GMC. I have never paid any attention to the wheels. I need to go look and see what are on mine. I changed a lot of tires on 50's GM 2 tons and I don't remember seeing those type of wheel on anything larger than a pickup. But by the late 50's when I started changing tires, the 40's stuff was obsolete for commercial use.

The 18" tube type wheels on my 1959 3800 1-ton had those wheels, and they are VERY susceptible to rust damage. If you look closely, there are two slightly relieved areas at about the 10:00 and 2:00 position on the lock ring which allows the ring to be lifted slightly at the top and gently tapped off the main wheel assembly. The locking area is so small that even a little rust or wear makes them dangerous to inflate. Do a thorough cleaning of both the ring and the groove in the wheel with a wire brush and inspect very carefully for erosion of the mating surfaces. DO NOT paint the mating surfaces of the wheel or the ring. If you want a good-looking assembly, do your painting after the wheel is assembled and the tire is inflated.
Jerry

Also similar to my 16 Inch Wheels on my old '64 C-30. I had one break apart on me once from rust, but luckily it was one of the Rears and it just wedged up against the other Dual. I also agree on Mounting and Inflating first, then Paint. With my next 1-Ton which is on the way, I'll be going with 1-Piece. In my case anyway, they will look almost exactly the same.

Bill

Those wheels must have been common. I looked on my 41 and 46 and they both have them. The previous owner mounted 6 new tires on the 46 model and the 41 is a parts truck so I never really looked at the wheels. I inspected them and the lock rings all appear to be properly seated.

https://plus.google.com/10819770718...1199634370&oid=108197707187186692269

The one with the ladder is the 46 and the 41 has the grain box. Some previous owner also installed a good running 302 in the 46 and the 41 has a running 248 in it. I don't know what I'm gonna do with them, but I just couldn't let them go through auction at less than scrap iron price.

Would it be possible for someone to take a close up picture of this 2 piece wheel assembly in the assembled condition, tire and all? I'm especially interested in how and where the tire meets the ring/bead......Thanks

Here are a couple of pictures of the steering axle wheel on my 41 GMC parts truck.

https://plus.google.com/108197707187186692269/posts

The first picture show the entire wheel which probably hasn't been changed in 40 years. The second picture shows the lock ring. Note that there is almost no gap between the lock ring and and the wheel. It also shows hammer marks where someone my generation or older hit the lock ring to make sure it was properly seated while they inflated it.

Ken,

Your link doesn't work...says I don't have permission to view.

Mike B

See if the link works now. If not I will fiddle with it some more and try to fix it to where it is shared with the public.

Thanks crenwelge for the close-up pictures! It really helps me to understand how the lock ring meets the wheel and tire

It's working now!

Thanks,

Mike B