The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts 1936 Chevrolet 1 1/2 ton project

Hi,

First off, a great thank you to all the folks who have shared their information with others on this site.

I am almost done figuring out the project truck. The following what I understand from looking up posts and researching. My goal is to create a truck that drives well as a daily driver. Lighter loads, capability to tow a heaver trailer. Highway speeds are not needed, but I do need to cruse at 50mph/80kph.

AS I understand things:
To get engine revs down at speed I need to change rear gears or install an overdrive trans. There are two gears available for the '36: bad and worse. New gears will make me change the rear end complete. If I want to retain the rear end, I need a later ('40 or so) pumpkin which has an open drive line. I can then have a driveshaft built to suit.
Now with overdrive (or taller gears), the engine HP becomes an issue.Plenty of candidates for a swap in the 235/261 or even 230/250/292 family.
Having fixed the gearing and power, brakes are certain to be a problem. The disk kits available are set up for different wheels. If I want to retain the stock wheels, adapters are needed for the center. Wheels are hub centric so some lathe work can fix.
If the wheels also are to be changed, going with late model wheels and brakes becomes easier.

- I would like to hear about errors in my thinking before I invest.
- There doesn't seem to be much of this truck that isn't to be changed.
- If someone does this to a '36 truck are they creating a "white elephant".
- Given the truck is stock now, is it better to let a restorer get hold of it given that I am likely to change so much of it.

Look forward to your comments!
-Tom

Hy CdnBigBolt, Welcome, it looks as though you have a firm grasp of all the issues. My personal opinion is if your truck is complete, I would prefer it be restored rather than modified, that being said, it is your truck and you may do with it anything you want. Good luck with your project whichever way you decide to go.

Thanks Shop Shark

I agree with your pref to restore, it's just that the truck is no good to me if I can't use it. OTOH it is sad to "drive a new truck" under the cab.
As yet, it is not my truck as it's not bought yet. I am trying to realistically (ha ha) estimate the effort, cost and so on. The other variable is the purchase price. As my plans use less and less of the truck, I will need to pay less at purchase.
The truck is said to have been rebuilt mechanically from front to back. And it is not running at the moment so it's hard to qualify his statement. Seems like a nice guy but...

Just remember that all of your modifications come with lots of hidden costs, you change one thing that affects three other things. For the most part you will be on your own, there won't be any vendors with off the shelf stuff for a 1936 1-1/2 ton resto/mod project.

Major items to be think about:

New engine may require relocating the radiator and will need a new bell housing which may affect the brake/clutch pedal assembly.

You'll want a new transmission for synchronized gears and parking brake.

Rear end with better gears and better brakes.

Front brakes to match the rear brakes.

Master cylinder that matches the front and rear brake needs.

There's a lot to be done. Just make sure this is what you really want to do. It would be ashame to get tons of money and time invested only to find out the project is over your head and you lose interest in finishing. At that point you really will have a white elephant...

I'm working on a 1956 1/2 ton pickup right now and I can tell you it takes twice as much money and 4 times as much time to complete as you originally forecast.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do...

Mike B

Tom,

From what you have stated as your needs for a truck and what this 1936 truck has, you don't seem to be a very good match. To qualify my opinion, I will fully admit that I fall on the purest restoration side of the continuum, so in my opinion it would be a shame to dismantle a supposedly restored truck with a myriad of alterations. While having an old truck with modern drivetrain/safety features has a definite "coolness" factor, it would certainly be more fiscally logical to find a vehicle that fits your needs in its original configuration (ie a newer model truck). Hobbies are rarely logical though so anything can be done if it makes you happy and your bank account can support your desires. Sometimes while working on my 41, I think about the general lack of safety features as my daily driver car has at least a half dozen air bags, AWD, ABS, traction control, unibody crumple construction design, impact collapsing steering column...and ponder if ANY retro-mod vehicle is truly as safe as an every day driver.

My 2 cents...

Paul

I have to offer a third option, for what it's worth. You seem to be stuck on either recreating or restoring the truck. Both of those options cost a ton (and a half) of money and take from us one more good original truck. I would suggest, as a third option, do whatever is necessary to make it start, drive and stop and then enjoy it for what it is, a cool 80 year old truck. With a little luck it'll start most of the time you try. It'll drive, slowly and stop slower. But the best part about it is it should make you and most everybody else smile every time they see it coming down the road.

My two cents worth is best explained with my personal story. Myself and a seller finally agreed on a price for a 1937 1.5 ton panel truck in Central CA. My wife and I flew there to pay for the truck and while driving our rental car to his property, he called to say that it was no longer available. My wife was an emotional wreck....The person he traded it to (for a vintage Harley Davidson) took the body off and placed it upon a big Dodge 4x4 Diesel and uses the truck for as signage for his business. He's got the 'old' look which many reference as 'cool', but his entire drive train all works together, in a modern, efficient manner.

Not my first choice, but is sounds like what you are hoping to achieve. If you are making a daily driver out of this, in Ontario, you might want something with an actual heater, defrost, and 'traction'...

Happy Holidays and best of luck...

As far as power...and since its a large truck, I would put in a 261 or 292....261 for a more stock look or the 292 for more power. A good tranny would be an NV4500 though it would take some mods to get it to work. Will bolt up to a 292 with an adapter and a hydraulic clutch would need to be used. Nice because it has a granny low and an over drive..I personally am not a fan of wide ratio transmissions but for a large truck like that you need a good tough tranny. There's tons of options out there so keep an eye pealed. My 2 cents. TJ

292's are as long as GMC 302's, about 3 " longer than a 261' etc. if you want to do that, then find a GMC to see how they put the radiator in FRONT of the core support.

I don't know how tall you're, I had a '38 GMC 1.5 ton, perhaps similar to a '36 Chevy, I sold it because of lack of legroom(6'2") and got a '37 GMC T-18, which has enough leg room, installed a DD 4-53T,(approximate same length as a 5.9 Cummins), Roadranger 10 speed, Brownie OD trans for power.

For running gear, I found a P3500 school bus with 4 wheel discs, D-80 rear, solid front axle, 5/10 bolt pattern wheels which tubeless(22.5") tires are available.Saginaw power steering- thus all the running gear are designed to work together. Very satisfactory.

One also has to deal w/ the original radiator. Must figure for 16 lbs. for pressure, can't Fit a much larger radiator in the '36 shell, only way to get more capacity is go get a modern radiator w/ more cores.

You might look around for other options. Good luck.

If you're planning on using it more like a modern truck I'd probably get a newer truck and get the old cab put on. Trucks in the '60s are pretty cheap and you can make a 235 look like a 216 (though it's still a year newer than the '36 cab would be). I think you'd be in the hole less if you just found the cab you want and put it on a running '60s rig than changing the '36 and leave that for someone to restore. Or heck, you might just end up liking the cab of a 60's truck anyhow! I have much respect for a quality resto mod, as well as a fully restored rig. Figuring what makes the most sense for a specific truck can be hard, but as I get older I gain a growing consciousness of the limited number of originals, but I also like seeing trucks that "should have been scrapped" saved in any means possible!

The reason I just joined this forum is due to my interest in finding an old flatbed truck that I can fix up as a hobby in my shop, that will also have some functional use around our little farm. It just so happens that in my short time of getting familiar with different models that are out there, I've really taken a liking to the 36-37 Chevy 1 1/2 ton trucks, like the OP. I don't think I'd ever do anything drastic in the sense of replacing the motor with something modern and all that, but this whole tread makes me want to ask...

What sort of carrying capacity could one expect from a '36-'37 1 1/2 ton truck? What engine sizes came with this year? What kind of weight could it pull behind it in a trailer? What's a comfortable top cruising speed?

Filson, I'll attempt to answer your question but someone else may do a better job a little later.
The 37 original motor is a 207....the 36 was a 194, I think. They will pull the gross weight because they are geared for it but along with the gearing comes a slow speed. Probably 45 MPH would be an educated guess....and then you have to STOP it!

Unless you have a neat original the first things you'll probably wish you had done was step up to a nice 235...or larger, and also you'll be wanting a higher gear....which means you'll need better brakes. I think you see what I mean. So, do some planning, and the more complete, running truck you find the better you'll be...even if you have to pay a little more.
Hope this gets you thinking in the direction you need to go.

Filson, take a look see at my '38 1 ton.

I replaced the 216 with a GMC 270. Installed disc brakes on the front axle. I changed the rear axle to an open driveshaft with 3.90 gears and bendix brakes.

It will run 60 mph and I installed a class 3 hitch to pull a trailer.

Achipmunk,

Thanks for all the info! I do a lot of restoring of vintage tools, bench vises and the like, which I absolutely love doing. I did some very minor work and painted my first truck ('79 C10) and had fun learning with it, so I think I'd enjoy fixing up an old truck as well. It certainly sounds exciting to me.

Ideally for me and my situation, I'd like to find something that is rough, but road worthy. I'm only 29, work and go to college full time, so money is tight. Wife works too, which helps, but point is - it'd be a long restoration project, fixing up what I can, when I can. But I'd like to get some utility use out of it in the mean time (we have a little 60 acre farm and could sure find some use for it lol).

Does anybody know what the GVWR is of one of these, or what the class is? (Sorry, I know very little about that stuff).

Also, approximately how long is the bed in the longer models?

I'm not really conserned about pushing the truck beyond it's limits, frankly, I'd be using it to get some lumber now and than, hauling a load of hay bales, a pallet of wood pellets for our stove, smaller tractor implements and so on.

But I may want to move a new project vehicle (car/small truck) or smaller tractor (think a Ford 8N or similar) some day down the road, and am wondering if it should handle that okay, or not.

Wayne,

That is one beautiful truck, you did an amazing job! How hard was it to swap the engine and do all the other work? I'm mechanically inclined but some of that may be over my head. I do know an ASE certified Master Mechanic if worse comes to worse though, I suppose lol.

I guess I should ask for the curb weight as well, to figure out, in pounds, what you can approximately haul with one.

Filson, check the free information kit for the 36 truck here

Bill

It will do all of this and more, It probably has during it previous life.

This was my 1st restoration,rebuild, conversion. I took 15 months when I retired to redo my truck. I approached it one small project at a time...like eating an elephant, one bite at a time.

You can do it if you stay focused.

I'm not sure why brakes are a concern. I can show NHTSA data that shows that disc brakes are no safer than drum. The BIGGEST safety measure would be switching to dual systems rather than disc.

My M35a2 at 12,000lbs with an M105 trailer (another ton) stopped perfectly fine with drum brakes.

Same for my 13,000lbs CCKW.. stopping on Pennsylvania hills is no problem for a drum brakes on a truck that big.

The engines for the '36 and '37 are different. The 1936 will have a 207 (last year for that motor) and the '37 will have a 216 (first year for that motor).

Both years had 131" and 157" wheelbase 1-1/2 ton trucks that had curb weights of about 4500 and 5100 pounds respectively with dual rear wheels. The 131 would have a 9' bed while the 157 would have a 12' bed. The gross weight would be about 12,000 pounds with helper springs.

These trucks can do the same work as a newer truck around the farm when maintained, who drives 60 mph across the field anyway? And when going to the feed store you'll be driving in style at 45 mph, smelling the roses with a big smile on your face!

Mike B

Disc brakes and drum brakes are both good methods of stopping a truck.

Braking capacity is what is important. These trucks and any other vehicle made should have decent enough brakes (if well maintained) to stop the vehicle at the weight and speeds it was designed for.

If looking for more speed you should consider stronger brakes.
Just any disc brake may or may not be better off than the stock drum brakes.

Man I'm starting to love this place, you guys have an insane amount of knowledge and resources!

Red58 - That's amazing that all that info is still out there. Thank you so much for sharing!

Wayne67vert - Yep, that's the way I'm going to have to go about it. It's not something I necessarily even want to rush at. Take my time, do what I can, when I can, and just enjoy every day I get to spend in the shop with it.

MikeB - Thanks for the specific info, exactly what I was looking for. So 12,000 lbs or so, less the 4500-5100 lbs and we're looking at around roughly 7,000 lbs of weight capacity on top the flatbed. Seems a wee bit more than the 1 1/2 ton classification lol. I can see how people get confused. Thanks again!

Grigg - I live on a very hilly area (while most of my 34 mile commute into town is along Lake Roosevelt/Columbia River here in NE WA, the last 4.5 miles from the highway to my house climbs just over 1,200' in elevation. I may very well be interested in upgrading the brakes lol.

Thanks again guys for sharing all your knowledge and taking the time to do so.

Simply switching to discs will not really 'upgrade' anything. What pressure will you run at? Can your vac supply it? How many sq in of rotor do you need? What about pad surface? If its an engineered kit, OK, someone did the math for you. If you just want to 'add some discs' then how do you know you improved anything?

Disc brakes fade, warp and have the same issues as drums so simply switching will not 'upgrade' anything. Most tractor trailers (60,0000+lbs) still stop with drum brakes.

If you want to make your truck safer then put in separate front/rear brake circuits. NHTSA data show that one single change is the most significant safety upgrade (and the reason it was mandated in the 60s-70s Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 105-68 and 105-75) you can do.

from www.tm9-801.com

Since my G506 will be a daily driver I though about upping the brakes from drums to rotors (ie get new axle housings)... but ruled it out after reading NHTSA Report Number DOT HS 806 359 regarding brake improvements in US vehicles and the pure cost involved. There are the two stats that really surprised me: http:http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/regrev/evaluate/806359.html

Dual master cylinders annually prevent 40,000 accidents that would have resulted in 260 fatalities, 24,000 injuries and $132 million In property, damage. They add $17 to the lifetime cost of owning and operating a car (in 1982 dollars).


Front disc brakes annually prevent 10,000 accidents that would have resulted in 64 fatalities, 5,700 injuries and $32 million in property damage. They add $21 to the lifetime cost of a car.

There are millions of cars made today with drum brakes. They all stop fine.

I agree with the benefits of upgrading from single to dual (separate front and rear) brake lines, and have done this on my 64 GMC pickup by using a dual chamber master cylinder. But how is this done on a truck with a single (same front and rear) brake lines hydrovac system that boosts brake pressure coming from a single chamber master cylinder?

I have a 1936 1-1/2 ton truck that is roadworthy with all it's original driveline. It has a 5th wheel and pulls it's very own 1936 Fruehauf flat bed semi trailer. I am looking for a 9 ft factory flat bed so I can change for some farm and chore work when I don't need the "big rig".
The brakes seem fine after a complete rebuild but I have never had a load on the truck. As time goes on, I would certainly consider a dual MC setup if I could accomplish a tidy installation.
My truck has the "fast" gears (5.43) and it is screaming at 50 mph with 6.50 X 20 tires. I'm OK with the setup because I like EVERYTHING about old trucks. I like the way they look, sound, smell, and ride. I even like the way the sweat runs down my crack when it's July and I'm out for a ride.
When you own a vehicle, you get to do what ever you want with it but driving a new truck with some vintage tin surrounding me just doesn't do anything for me.
Here is a link to a thread about my truck with lots of photos if anyone wants to take a look. http://vcca.org/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/216672/1936_1_1/2_ton_Low_Roof_Semi_L#Post216672

Mike

I think the 'best' solution is as many have said.. dual vacs. A vac for a 2 ton truck is only $300-400 rebuilt and the dual chamber master cylinders are already readily available.

Plumbing is not a huge issue... setting the bias front to rear is also easily done.

If you are looking for a dual circuit MC I don't see the point of installing and maintaining two old hydrocac units. You aren't original any more, so simply use a modern dual circuit MC complete with a vacuum booster bolted to it. Or a Hydrobooster is even better yet if you have power steering too.

I don't know if this is true for 50's-60's trucks, but my 43 G506 1.5 ton all I have to go by.. that said:

I think the biggest obstacle to using a late model dual vac/booster is the brake pedal geometry. Modern pedals are hinged at the top whereas early trucks have the pivots at the bottom. The amount of linkage kung-fu needed to put a large diameter power cylinder where the stock pedal can actuate it is gonna be a challenge.

Whereas simply adding a second canister to the other frame rail and some plumbing to split the front/rear would be trivial. You could even have an 'emergency cross over' rigged up.

I'm really debating the dual vacs on my G506. I want to, and for the small amount of 'non-stocky-ness' it would add I like the idea of stopping a lot more.

It is not at all difficult to mount whichever MC and booster you choose and use a longer pushrod to actuate it. No need to deal with modern hanging pedals. Some of the vendors even sell kits for this.

I don't know how much work you want to do, however, I got a set of stock Jeep brake and clutch cast iron pedals, turned them upside down, made a tube to pivot on(stock Jeep method) hooked to hydrobost and juice clutch, works very well on my '37 GMC. Doesn't interferes with anything on the firewall.