The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Well, it's in the garage. Now what???

No 1947 or newer Chevrolet trucks had positive ground from the factory.

GMC trucks through 1955/56 6v had positive ground from the factory.

No AD Chevies were positive ground. All ND GMCs were.

Well, that didn't turn out well. Tried to hook up a new battery, connecting red to positive and black to negative. Heard a spark sound soon followed by smoking wires in several places in the engine bay. I posted a question over in the electrical bay about how bad I messed things up. I am so screwed if I can't even hook up a battery.

Was that red/positive to ground?

Chevrolet is negative ground. GMC used positive ground thru '55 1st.

Yes, it appears so. The red is connected to something behind the starter and right next to that, is a band that is connected to the fender wall of the truck. The black then appears to go into the starter.

I didn't even know to check that out beforehand.

Here is a pic

On the bright side, all of those things were old and probably needed to be replaced anyway. It will make a good story when it is all done and running.

First - Those are replacement cables. The truck wasn't made with red cables.

A previous owner bought what ever cables fit regardless of color.

The way the battery was wired when you got it was how it was running.

Depending if the key was on or off will determine what blew up.

Key was out of the truck, ignition switch in the off position.

So, another day, another chance to mess something else up.

What are your thoughts on what I need to do now?

1) Is the battery toast?

2) Starter?

3) Alternator?

4) Other (ignition switch, gauges, etc)?

Assuming I need to buy new parts, where do I shop for starter/alternator, etc?

Thanks in advance!

Just take it one step at a time.
You weren't using the starter, The ignition switch was off, The battery wasn't hurt.

Alternator is toast, on the rare chance it had an external regulator, it's gone too.

You will have to replace a couple of fried wires. Make sure you check carefully that those wires didn't burn through adjacent wires they were bundled with.

That is about it.

Disconnect the wires to the alternator. If it is a single wire type you are really lucky.

Remove the burned wires from the truck. This will allow you to find any collateral burn damage.

Leave the alternator in place for now and get back to starting the motor.

If it starts and runs well, you can buy a new alternator and wire it in.

If the motor has problems, you don't need an alternator.

I just did a quick read of 6 pages of questions and comments. Unless I missed it, I do not see that we have identified what engine we are working on. The confusion about Positive ground raised a BIG RED FLAG in my mind. I THINK before we go blindly forward shotgunning this thing JUST MAYBE WE SHOULD dig out some Casting numbers and Serial numbers and IDENTIFY what we are working on. We don't want to burn this truck beyond repair nor burn the garage to the ground in our haste . JUST MY OPINION
Jerry

It's a 58/59 235 as far as I can tell. Casting number on the block was 3738307. The serial number is F1011A. There was another set of numbers, B62 848 850 also. I wasn't able to find a date stamp. I am assuming it's hidden behind the starter.

Let me know if you need anything else.

There is a post in Electric about this. Please respond there.

Well, with the help of Jim (Sears), I was able to get around some of the electrical issues (changed cables to be red/pos, black/neg) and unhook the alternator. Ryan and I were able to turn the motor slightly so we felt it was safe to try the starter. Hooked the battery back up (no sparks this time), key off, plugs out, Ryan pushed the starter. Made a grinding noise at first. He tried it again, and this time no grinding noise and I could see the fan blade turning. Success!

We then put the plugs back in, reconnected the cables (I had marked them when I took them off). Disconnected the fuel line at the tank (nothing came out, so it was empty. When then connected it to another section of hose and stuck it into a 2 gallon gas can. Took the air cleaner off, poured a little gas in. Ryan turn the key on and gave it a go. More turned over freely but no sounds that the motor was getting close to starting. We tried a couple of more times, this time with sone starter fluid sprayed in the carb. Same thing. On the fourth attempt, the starter made the loud grinding sound again. We tried two more times with the same grinding sound.

We called it good for the day. Unhooked the battery, disconnected the fuel and pushed her back into the garage.

So, the grinding of the starter. Is it misaligned with the flywheel? Should the flywheel be lubed at all? It was pretty dry with a coating of dust and maybe light rust. I think I had a picture of it in album.

So, one step backward, a couple steps forwards. Sure would have liked to hear her start up today though.

Would welcome any/all advice on how to proceed from here.

Thanks again!

...grab a spark plug wire and see if there is any fire. Gas plus spark should produce something.
You may as well pull that starter. Not hard to do and give it a going over.

Ryan was just asking if maybe the ignition got fried in the battery snafu. That's what it seemed like, it wasn't getting any spark.

How do I test the wire?

Pull the coil wire out of the distributor cap and place it near the engine. Turn on the key and make and break the points with a screwdriver. There should be a spark from wire to ground (engine).

Thank you cletis. I'll give it a try tomorrow.

LOL that's just plain mean........

We have already had more "spark" than we care for.

...quick and simple John. No need to go to all that trouble. Besides, its good for my heart

...but cletis splanined it good.

My grandfather used to do it that way. Only if you were standing against the car he'd grab the wire and you at the same time to complete the circuit. Then laugh like hell.....

I think I will go this route...

Inline Ignition Spark Checker

Don't waste the money.

Follow what Cletis outlined or we just pull a wire stick a screw driver in the end and hold it about 1/4 inch off the engine and have some one crank it (with the key on). Day or night you can see the spark.

No worries. I can handle $5 and I'll be near HF later this afternoon anyway. I'm still not 100% clear on how to do some of the suggestions and I would rather not fry something else, including myself.

I was working on a little briggs and stratton engine a year or so ago. It had been sitting for a long while and I figured "Heh, the points must be fouled up, its not gonna have spark..." So when I pulled the plug wire off and spun the engine over I got the biggest jolt I have felt. Hahaha From that point on I learned that points are not as delicate as people say.

You do know when Cletis says hold the screwdriver he means hold it by the handle, no need to zap yourself. He wasn't being sadistic. We've, most of old farts, done this all our lives.Larry

I honestly am not picturing what Cletis suggested (as well as a few other suggestions from other members) and am afraid that will end up shocking the crap out of myself. I had seen that Harbor Freight test tool here on another forum and it seems to be a safer way for an inexperienced person like myself to proceed. If anyone has any pictures or videos of the various techniques, it would be greatly appreciated. I did pick up the test light but am not going to be able to use it until this weekend.

Well, quick update. We got the motor running! Albeit, only for a few seconds, but got it started twice.

First and foremost, son had the key in the wrong position. Lesson learned.

Second, there was a broken wire leading to the coil. I repaired that.

Hooked up the spark testing tool and had him try. Truck fired up after turning over a few times. Wasn't expecting it, so I had him kill it. We then tried it again a few minutes later and it started a second time. This time it died on it's own, I don't think it was getting gas. We took a little video that I will post up later. We are very excited!

Ron and Ryan

Hey, that's progress. Keep at it, you'll get it.Larry

Just wanted you to know that the positive ground thing is not unique. I bought a 52 Chevy, 3100 last year. One of the first things I noticed was that it had a positive ground. Being that it was my first AD truck, I thought that was normal. I did a little research here on this forum and learned that was not normal. GM did that, but NOT Chevy. I guess that someone had replaced my generator with a GM version.

In my case, I still had the original 6V wiring. I had noticed that the heater fan blew backwards, and the voltmeter read backwards. Both those things made sense to me, assuming someone replaced that generator with a positive ground. I fixed those those little items, and haven't looked back.

daveboy

That's making progress.

Well, Ryan and I spent a little time on Friday afternoon working on the truck. We were going to spend the day fishing, but a storm blew us off the lake early.

We worked on trying to get the motor started and running on it's own. Out of the gate, we are still having issues with the starter "grinding". Sometimes it engages the flywheel just fine other times it doesn't. Next item on the task list is to pull the starter and see what we can see.

Putting a little gas in the carb, we were able to start the motor and get it to run for 10-20 seconds before it would die. We have a 2 gallon gas can on the side of the truck with the end of the fuel line from the tank stuck down in the can. We knew there was air in the lines so figured after several starting attempts, it would fill.

There is a filter between the pump and carb. We pulled it and it was dry. We then disconnected the fuel line going into the fuel pump and tried to blow some air from back at the tank through it. Was difficult at first, but then finally passed through. We then used the little siphon hose we bought and was able to push some fuel through the line. Lot's of black stuff came out. We did this several times until the fuel seemed to come out clean. We then pulled the fuel line from the pump to the carb. It seemed fine.

Figuring that the fuel pump is bad, we decided to go ahead and pull it. Had to scrape off a bunch of gunk before I could get a wrench on it. Thankfully, it came off without any issues.

Here are a few pics...

Fuel pump (back)

Fuel pump (side)

Going to order a new one but I have a question. I have seen that there are two types. One for vacuum wipers and one for electric. I am assuming I should just get the electric one since I would probably want electric when it comes to that (very, very low on the to-do list...given that we only get about 6 inches of rain a year!)

Also, went to our first swap meet yesterday. Man, that can be a dangerous place to go. Picked up a few items from a Bolter (thanks Dave!) as well as given Ryan lots of ideas for shop projects. He's taking welding in high school and is starting to make/sell things. Pretty cool! He has a wagon wheel porch swing that he is just about done with and hoping to sell it for a nice profit at the county fair next month. I'll post a few pics of it when he is done.

Have a great Sunday everyone!

Ron and Ryan

Ryan did some interior clean up this morning.....

Scraper...

Scrapie

Ron and Ryan,

Starter grinding...had a similar experience not long ago. Mine would sorta "groan" and rumble at me about every five starts, then catch and go. It got progressively worse and I worried it would leave me high and dry someday. My research in the "search" page here told me I likely had a starter drive going bad.

I was afraid to take the starter apart myself, but necessity (and no reliable vendors in the area) forced me to take the plunge. In the end, I discovered that, like the transmissions on these old trucks, these are really simple systems and even a novice can tackle them.

I did ask for help ahead of time, and here's the thread for that request:

https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthread...in=148654&Number=1005713#Post1005713

This website has amazing folks on it. Trust me when I say that this is something you can do yourselves. My entire starter core will likely need to be replaced next time (see the photos of my well-worn one), but I have no fear about jumping in and swapping it out now.

Oh, and the stock rebuild kits from NAPA do not have the correct length starter drive, but I have included the correct number of the one I got from Amazon.

Best Wishes,

Jim

Jim, thank you very much! We are apprehensive about doing a lot of this but with support like this, I think we will get through it all!

Of course you will! And you are most welcome. A LOT smarter people than me on this site. Just thought you could use a note form a fellow novice who had to develop the nerve to tackle these things.

Incidentally, I listened to your truck start up (Same engine as mine) and I swear it's making the same "bell-ringing" sound mine did when I first got it. I found out that my flywheel was dragging on the flywheel dust cover and it sounded like church bells ringing down to quiet after I shut it off each time.

The music of the 235 I guess. Don't know if it's the same issue, but it's an excuse for you to crawl around on your back underneath and get dirty!

Best Wishes Gentlemen,

Jim

We didn't get any video on Friday of it running longer but I didn't notice the sound from the first video. My daughter noticed it more. I'll have her get some video next time. Went and picked up new plugs and fuel filter at lunch today. Hopefully, we will get another shot at it in a few days.

Oh and definitely not the same issue as yours. We don't have a flywheel cover! The prior owner said he might have some parts at his cabin in the mountains but I'm not holding my breath on getting anything.

Well, all I have to say about this is.. With fishing, you success is measured in DEAD fish. With working on your truck together your success is immeasurable! Hang in there.. You have come to the right place!