The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop using breakin oil

What are your thoughts on this. I'm rebuilding a 350 to put in my 58 GMC. The engine was inexpensive but I've had to install a new crank, the old one was to badly wiped to regrind, new camshaft and lifters. I guess I watch too much TV because I've in all my years I've never used a break in oil in the few engines I've rebuilt over the years. Watched those guys on Fast and Loud have to rebuild a rebuild because they didn't "use proper break in oil and procedures".

I'm not building a high hp engine. The cam that cam out of it was in the 458 lift range, which is what I've replaced it with, topped off with a holley 570 dual feed.

I've never been much on oil additives but what do you guys say. Do I add one of those bottles of extra stuff, I believe it's zinc, or not. I've rebuilt a few engines in the past they all survived. I value the wealth of knowledge here. Larry

this subject has been beat absolutely to death. All I can say it will only cost about an extra 20 bucks to get the break in oil, and it won't hurt. There has been a lot of changes in oil formulation over the last 20 or more years, so I don't really truly know where we stand. You can spend an extra twenty on insurance or not its all up to you.

I have always used an additive on a fresh engine. I have used a product from GM called EOS, All cam manufacturers have a prduct and I have used many of them. It can be a hot topic with many opinions. You can read for days and days about it.

Don

I vote for break-in oil. Trouble with the zinc additive is that it is not adequately mixed with oil at critical first start when just added to crankcase. I have had a cam failure on fresh rebuild and it is not fun. Always breakin- in oil for me from now on.

Oil has changed, that is a fact. Break-in oil has the additives regular oil does not. Zinc and other useful additives was removed by request of the OEM's for emissions and longer life of the exhaust converters.

Once the engine is broke in, normal oils will work in about 95% of all rebuilt engines. Its that 5% with the radical cams and high pressure valve springs that need race oils all the time.

Can you get away with regular oil, maybe, is it worth the risk? you tell me.

Comp Cams, and most of the other cam sellers all list some sort of break-in oil in the catalogs, whats that tell you?

This a couple years old so it maybe out dated by now, but its still a very good read.
http://www.hotrodandrestoration.com..._source=Email&utm_medium=Enewsletter

Joe

LarryW, make sure you take "all" the oil plugs out of that block and clean clean clean the oil passages, metal from a wiped out crack can still be in there and in all the passages where oil goes through, no break in oil in the world will be any good if there is crap still in the oil galleys. just my 2 cents. good luck, Dan

Ditto to Benny's advice. Every engine I build gets all the oil gallery plugs removed, and a good scrubbing with rifle and shotgun cleaning wire brushes and solvent, followed by a pressure wash. There's no such thing as an engine that's "too clean".
Jerry

Zinc for the cams is recommended. I know guys with 800hp that run delo400 the Diesel engine oil in their motors. It's an oil/detergent.

All oil gallery plugs and freeze plugs were removed and block was cleaned and inspected for cracks at a machine shop, by a guy that has many years experience. Keep the info coming. I'll take it all in.Larry

Dan. That was a good read, old or not. I realized after reading it I should have gone with a roller cam, maybe next time. I'm going to make another trip to the parts store to see if they carry any of those oils. Should be interesting. Larry

LarryW, Joe H posted it , not me, give credit when credits due. Dan

Thanks, I think I need to get my eyes realigned. Thanks Joe, it was a good read.Larry

No problem. Roller cams are nice, but very expensive. You really don't need one if you follow the break-in rules of the cam maker. True, there is no need to break-in the cam, but the rest of the motor needs special care, so you might as well do it right at the start. Oil Warehouse will deliver to your door step if you can't find something local, http://theoilwarehouse.com/. Stay with a 10-30 or 10-40 oil for break-in, you really don't want a heavy oil, you need it to really splash and sling around in the engine. If you go with just the additive like Com Cams, choose a name brand oil to go with it. This works just as well as true break-in oil with a mild built engine. I will use the best I can get, Brad Penn, in all out race motors. Any oil will work, I just like the better brands, they may be all the same, but I feel better using a brand I know.

Wix oil filters are the best out there, Napa's best grade are made by Wix as well. I always buy two filters and change it after the break-in and a short drive. I leave the oil for a couple 100 miles. If the filter does its job, there is no use throwing good oil away. People always say the oil should be changed right away due to contamination. Check after it has run, you will know if it needs changed or not. I also use a lot of Moly cam grease, so the oil gets dark really quick, still doesn't mean its bad. Metal sparkles or brass sparkles are bad, dark oil is full of good useful additives.

Good luck with yours,

Joe

Use regular oil. If the motor is put together properly there is not much that can go wrong.

ZDDP has been REPLACED with other additives that work just as well, but use other compounds.

There are lots of motors made today, that use flat tappets, and come from the factory with normal oil.

Company like Amsoil and boutique oils need you to believe that ZDDP is magical unicorn pee so you buy their stuff. Professional re-builders use it because of the misconception that its still needed. Plus they can mark up their 'special blend' of break in oil and (wait for it) sell it.

Use what you like.. I'm sure that when we are all in Mr. Fusion powered DeLorians someone is still going to say that you need ZDDP to travel time faster.

Nobody has mentioned a very important step in engine rebuilding. It's called assembly lube. Goes a long way in protecting precious metal parts on first start up, especially cam and lifters. Also, priming the whole system by spinning the oil pump with a drill is a must on my rebuilds

Even just using oil is fine for bearings as long as you do a startup relatively soon (hours to a day or so). The cam is really the only item that needs something 'more sticky' as cams are not pressure lubed, but splash lubed. Cam bearings are pressure lubed, but the lobes are not.

I do agree that pre-pressurizing the motor (the old drill in the dist hole trick) is probably the only pre-start item that should be done for home rebuilders. There are millions of cars made every year that are filled with oil and started for the first time at the end of the production line. Nothing more than oil in the pan.

I am pretty sure there are no production flat tappet engines out there, they stopped using flat tappets around 1989, because they were ruining catalytic converters with the zinc in the oil, and they kept ruining cams without the phosphorous in the oil, so they just simply went to roller cams, which eliminated both problems. You may or may not need break in oil, GM engine assembly lube is the magic goo that constitutes the difference between "regular oil" and "break-in oil" they use about 6 ounces assembling an engine, which coincidentally is about what is in one of those little containers of zinc additive. But since I don't know exactly what the requirements are for any particular cam, what the actual components that are in the assembly lube being used, and the actual level of any additive in the oil that may or not be used. Not to mention the difference in price between the two is about $20 for an engines worth. And for the amount of money that gets spent on these engines is entirely worth the extra $20 of insurance in my opinion. It is most decidedly worth it in the amount of work it takes to replace a cam. You can do what ever you want, I will use a designated breakin oil. The ZDDP additive may cost a little bit, but nowhere near as much one of those "smart phones", or a boat, or a set of golf clubs. Or what ever someone thinks they "NEED" If $20 is going to break you, you are in the wrong hobby.

I did see that F/L episode when the cam failed supposedly due to using wrong break in oil. I'm not recommending this procedure, but to Farber's point, I helped my father (he is an expert) rebuild 2 small block chev's for friends in exchange for an old pickup. Both were flat tappets, and all Dad did was coat all bearings and metal to metal contacts w/a squirt oil can filled with the same stuff we ultimately put in the oil pan. Both of those engines went into teenagers car's w/o any break in oil or special procedures and were driven very hard (personal experience) and never had any problems (family friends). My takeaway would be - if I were doing a rebuild, I would use the bearing lube, and break in oil as it's not that expensive for a little extra protection, but wouldn't be so stressed about things going south because I missed a dot here or there. Far more important is getting it back together correctly !

Thanks guys, I feel better about finally starting it up. I'm doing this as money allows and I did use a bottle of lube on the bearings and rings when putting it together. I've got one more order to make to Summit and they carry a break in oil and the zinc additive. It's been a few years since I tackled a small block chevy. I've rebuilt two Chrysler 318 for my boat about 15 years ago and no problems so we'll see in a week or two how this goes.

I've got the heads back and bolted on, still have the lifters and the intake to go, need new radiator which I'll get locally. I'm not going to start it until it's complete and in the truck. That's my plan for now so I guess whether or not I need a break in oil I'll get some and use it anyway just in case. Larry

Oh yeah, I plan to prime the system with a drill to the oil pump.Larry

I suggest you look at just about every overhead cam engine that uses the 'direct acting mechanical bucket' valve system and tell me what is happening there. Hint: its a flat tappet with a fancy name and no push rod/rocker.

I'm sure that every other car manufacturer is using a flat tappet system.. with a fancy name to make it sound like its NOT 100 year old tech.

And those motors do not get anything special wrt break in. Turn the key and drive, first oil change 5-7k miles.

oh of course, you would argue about that too. You would think that with all your knowledge you would have the world fixed by next week.

Its a shame when a relativity new guy comes here with a question and others are kind enough to offer advise and "their" opinion only to have a Jack**s come and argue every comment made.

Excellent! Assembly lube, priming and a good flat tappet cam oil, such as Valvoline VR-1 Racing Oil, which is designed for flat tappet cams, and you should be good to go.

As for all the drama here.... life is short... don't worry, Be Happy

Yeah.. people get crazy about their motor oil.

I've been around here long enough that the drama doesn't bother me. You can sit 10 people down and discuss a subject and there will always be one with a different slant on the subject. It's just life.

I'm from Louisa Va and there was a Chrysler/Dodge dealer up there who had a shop with 3 or 4 mechanics, one being my 1st father in law. He'd bring one of his old antique cars in for a little work and first thing those guys would say is "Don't know anything about them". So Mr Pettit would look a my father in law with out a word he'd go fix it. He grew up with those old cars. Seems like all of them had ideas but you just got to get to the older generation to get it done. But you have to be able to listen to the newer generation and help them along. Not every problem has just one answer or solution. Sorry for the ramble. Larry

Thanks Larry. Your wisdom probably far exceeds your age. Your father in law reminds me of my own dad. Wish I could have kept him around a lot longer than he was.

Larry, when its time to assemble the cam and lifters, use a thick grease made for cams. I really load the cam lobes up and then only turn the engine over as few times as needed to set the rocker arms. Most of the time I can get away with one full revolution. I build a lot of Pontiac motors, and on those, I can add more cam lube from the top before installing the valley cover. I leave nothing to chance. Same when installing the transmission / clutch, don't rotate the engine anymore then needed.

Grease will stay on the cam for a long time, the liquid cam lubes also work if you plan on starting the engine right away.

As with any engine start up, being ready is just as important as what you use in the engine. Have a good working, full of fuel carb, distributor as close to in time as you can get, and a battery fully charged. Don't try to start it unless you have the time for a full break-in, not even a test fire. Once it starts, let it run and get the rpm up asap. Don't bother setting anything other whats needed to keep it running, do all the tuning later.

Joe