The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Tool Chest Buying a sand blaster

What type (pressure vs. gravity) and what size sand blaster will suffice for home use - frame clean-up and body de-rusting?

I have probably tried every conceivable means of sand blasting. I started to do my first 1950 frame with a suction feed bucket system (calling it a system is really being nice). Its a freakin bucket and a hose with the gun attached! Then I progressed to a Harbor Freight 80 pound pressure blaster that lasted about the same amount of time as the suction feed system did. So that means I got about 1/4 of one frame done.

I then purchased a much more professional hose, water trap, and valve shutoffs for the HF blaster. The HF blaster is just fine as long as you understand you will have to make improvements. Once I replaced all of that and a better inline style gun with a carbide tip, it all came together. Now that's what I use outdoors. I am not sure if there are any companies that make adequate pressure blasters out of the box. Each improvement was necessary to make it useable.

As far as indoor blasting cabinets, TP Tool makes really nice solutions that require no modifications at all. Keep in mind that ceramic nozzles die very fast so even though the carbide nozzles are way higher priced, just pay and get the carbide right away. It will save you a lot of money in the long run.

When you say for 'home use', it makes me a little nervous because if you will never EVER blast anything ever again except for this one truck, just use a gravity feed cheapo and spend a few extra weeks doing it. If you MIGHT maybe end up needing to do more, any pressure blaster plus modifications will be good. But then you have another issue.. your air compressor. Nothing takes more air than pressure blasting. If you have a single stage 60 gallon compressor, you will be blasting for about 10 minutes, and waiting for the compressor to catch up for about 10 minutes, all the while running the compressor non-stop. Very hard on it. A two stage 80 gallon compressor may be adequate. I didn't see it that way and I have two compressors in tandem so I have twice the storage capacity and twice the output. Even then, it runs much more than it stops.

You can see the equipment I use on my website. I went down this road after taking my first frame and body parts to a 'professional' media blaster and it came back just a little different than when I gave it to them. Cost me over 800$ to learn (yet again) that if you want something done right.... YOU GOTTA DO IT YOURSELF!!!

I have a siphon blaster (bucket of sand). Nice unit with changeable nozzles and orfices'. Nice for small projects, but not for anything very large.
I later bought a pressure tank type, much nicer for larger things.
As Deve said adequate compressor size is the main thing, to small and your always waiting for it to catch up. I have a 2 stage U.S. Curtis, not sure what the cfm is on it. Probably around 34 cfm.

John

Whew, there are tons of blasting tales out there. Everyone's is different. Do a search on sand blasting and you can read for a long time!
I'll make this short. Pay to have the chassis professionally blasted then put your coating/paint of choice on it. You just saved money, time and aggravation!
Then spend some good dollars on a TPTool (Skat-Blast) blasting cabinet. You will find there aren't many things you won't be able to do in the 46x28x28 cabinet. If it don't fit in my cabinet it goes somewhere else.

I went through the pressurized system ect and blasted one chassis. NEVER again. However, I use the blasting cabinet on almost daily basic. I've had my skat blast cabinet for 10 years now and its as good as the day I bought it... and the good part is the price only a few dollars more today than back then.

Deve, sorry you had a bad experience with your blaster. I guess we are fortunate in my area. There are at least two guys that have been doing blasting for over 20 years each and are very good, and decently priced.

Good luck.

Thanks all. I needed to hear that, from everyone, so I don't go down the wrong path. There are nearby outfits that sand blast, so may use one of them for the frame.

Just don't expect them to get to clean, shiny, bare metal. Its not expected for most restorations. Once you get most of the paint off, that makes a good substrate for beginning the process. This is the attitude of 98% of all restorers out there.

As a newby and total amateur back in the day, I didn't know this, so I was terrified and ready to kill somebody when I got what I expected to be shiny bare metal in every crevasse and ended up with a lot of primers, paints, and crud back after spending what I thought was a fortune for totally substandard work. In reality, its NOT substandard. They did what everyone else expects. Once its done to their standards, you can sandpaper the rest, then clean well with metal prep and epoxy prime.

To this day, this is totally unacceptable to me. Its either shiny bare metal, or they haven't finished yet. I don't know whats under what they didn't do right. I would also think (to this day) that different substrates, paint in some places, primer in others, rust in others, may behave differently with my precious and VERY expensive primers and paints. I have watched shows like Overhaulin and Search and Restore and others where the VERY SAME INADEQUATE job was done in other parts of the country and they just dealt with it. Why? Because they HAD to.

So if you are OCD like me, you do it yourself and then you control the quality. AND, save about $600 on the job. It only costs a few hundred at most to do it yourself. I agree with AL VIN!!! mostly tho. If you have only one truck to do in your life, you can always pay the $800 and then use your Makita grinder on the bad parts. TP Tools Skat Blast Cabinets really are worth every penny. I use mine almost every other day on average. Merry Christmas to all!

It "pays" to really gather information. I spent over two hundred bucks for the pressure blaster and quite a bit of sand at 6 dollars a hundred lb. This was 3 years ago. But, heart problems and HOT weather don't mix. In the end I sold the blaster for 100 bucks to make my wife happy!

THEN I found out about a couple guys here who have been doing this blasting work for 20 plus years and does ALL the work for a local Mopar Restoration shop.....for $125 and hour and furnished the sand.
THEN my neighbor bought a 50 GMC and took it apart. A fellow that has been blasting for years and does mobile blasting came out to his house driving a diesel rig with a BIG diesel compressor on the back of it and a pallet of sand...the same sand I use. James had his truck apart so in 4 hours he blasted the chassis, and all the metal except for the hood which was no good anyway. Total cost $335... the metal was nice and clean when he finished but it wasn't bad to start with which says a lot. A little check on the "corners" and James primed it over here with expoxy. This was about 16 months ago. I think the going rate now is $150 and they furnish the sand. Maybe higher with the recent fuel increases???

I also have a friend, Stan, who runs South Eastern Powder Coating and he said "why didn't you let me do your chassis. I'd blast it and powder coat it for $450.........I had totally forgotten about him. So patience is the game here. Ask, and check around body shops and restoration shops. Ask THOSE guys who does their work.....and price may depend on geographical location. If someone here hit us for $800 they'd have to call the EMS!!

....but, I'm also like Deve...OCD that is. Sometimes its worse than at other times. I just feel no one will do it as good as I will... but the older I get the smarter I get, or maybe lazy

The problem I have when using a small compressor to do small blasting jobs is WATER! As mentioned above, those little compressors have to run constantly, and even using the small HF blasters, I get so much water through the air line that it wets the sand and clogs the tips. Only took me an hour to do one side of a glovebox lid..... So no more sandblasting for me. It goes to the man. Hate sand in my ears and neck and everywhere else.
BTW one of the best cleaning tools I have used is a small angle air tool with those Scotch round discs.

We use a few professionals in our area, that do a great job for a reasonable price. As shown in several hundred photographs on our website, all of our sheet metal comes back from the media-blaster, in bare, pristine metal with an excellent profile, for prep, prime & paint. In preparation for media-blasting, we remove all factory seam-fill, under-coating & foreign materials.

In our experience & opinion, media-blasting of all surfaces, to remove all coatings, to bare, pristine metal, is the best value for our investment. I couldn't disagree more about not getting sheet metal back from the media-blaster, in anything less than bare metal. Establishing expectations, scope of services & price, from your service-provider, is paramount, in a favorable customer/service-provider experience.

Deve, where can you find this #1 super fine silica sand? I didn't see anything labeled as such at my local Home Depot or Lowes.

Tad bit humid in Alabama I am betting .. do you have an air dryer in your compressor line?

I have a small pressurized blaster which works great for small projects. Here in the arid high plains humidity is low, and an inline air dryer does the job just fine.

I'd recomend not using silica sand. I use nickle slag, it doesn't have the health issues associated with silicosis, http://www.lung.org/lung-disease/silicosis/ , and nickle slag is green, so if you blast in your yard it disappears in the grass.

Just to share my experience. A seasoned restoration guy told me the reason sheetmetal warpage is a problem is due to the old paints and materials that are hard to get off and the blaster has to stay on it a long time adn the heat warps. I did as he suggested and stripped my whole car wiht a putty knife and a couple gallons of aircraft stripper over the course of a weekend out under a shade tree (with plenty of cool beverages in teh cooler). The sand blaster charged me $500 for entire car, in and out, top & bottom, everywhere line of sight. No warpage, perfect clean everywhere and I had it blown out a bunch and immediately shot with epoxy primer. I was really happy with all that. Now, that was several years ago, so I imagine that $500 would be more like 800 or so now I guess. Just sharing from my one experience, and boy it takes alot of air compressor use to get all the sand out of nooks and crannies.

Deve did you run across a carbide gun for a HF pressure blaster (Princess Auto up here)..i use ceramic but lifespan is short..I see siphon ones but no pressure ones.

I run ALOX in my big old honkin' KELCO blaster - you can fit a bike frame in it- and I switched to a boron carbide nozzle. Hasn't worn a bit but $$$.

I found a carbide tip for the gun but I cant recall where. It was so many years ago and I still use the same one. (below)

I hear so many people taking about #1 silica sand causing health problems, but they never assess the alternatives, so here's a valuable tip.. wear the appropriate respirator no matter what you are using. The stuff I pay $5 a bag for is Quikcrete's #1 silica sand. Its SAND! So when used outside, it just disappears. I use a tarp and two 4x8 sheets of plywood set to make a corner to trap the sand so I can reuse after screening.

This from my website....
I then ordered a carbide nozzle from www.boride.com (part no. TL2-1) in the 3/32" size.

Randy,

I have a TP Tools cabinet and use their carbide tips. They are expensive - they sell a gun kit, too.

I think the gun and carbide tips at Enco are a good price, but they have a minimum order.

You'll need a gun, nozzle, jet, and gasket.

http://www.abrasivesandequipment.co...ry&category=JSTD-7NRMYC&start=26

That Boride number is still listed for $30. It fits the HF 80 Pressure Blaster. Sorry, didn't realize Boride.com was gone.

Like Tim, for my inside work I use a TP Tools Skatblast cabinet and I always purchase their accessories.

Deve I have an industrial CLEMCO Apollo 600 low pressure air supplied helmet and mask system for sandblasting with tear away lenses and supplied air. Pricey but my lungs are worth it. Also have the CLEMCO vest system.

I've had the Dept of Environment drop by and chat/lecture me about sandblasting. .I've had to build a shelter to do it completely inside given I live in a residential neighbourhood. Painting outside is a no no as well now.

do you have link for the HF 80 gun? I'm wondering what it looks like and if it is the same as my Princess Auto one.

HR John - where do you get your nickel slag? How long have you been using it?

I've used Nickle Slag since November 2010. United Western in Denver supplies all the local companies with blasting media, and they also sell to the general public. http://www.unitedwesterndenver.com/...;virtuemart_category_id=6&Itemid=104

Hope that helps

The gun came with the blaster. Its an inline gun. I have it stored away so cant get a picture, but its the one they have on display at HF.

My first experience with Sandblasting was taking all my sheetmetal and frame to a professional company. It came back with lots of different levels of paint but the company assured me that this is how it needs to be to get a good substrate for painting. So much for that.

I then went to the local concrete plant. They have a diesel powered air compressor with a firehose and they use regular sandbox sand but at very very high velocity. I actually blew a piece of the frame that was already compromised clear off!

After asking several hobbyists and reading several forums, I got a bucket and siphon gun and a single 60 gallon 1 stage 6 horse compressor and spent several days blasting an entire frame. Decided there had to be a better way and got the 80 pound pressurized HF unit. My exploits are described in detail on my site. After adding another compressor the same as the other one, and doing a lot of beefing up the blaster, I am very satisfied and have no need to use anything else.

Most of the really professional restorers out there are very finicky about using sand of any grade. If your blasting material equates to 85 grit sandpaper in its ability to remove metal and scratch texture, its way too aggressive for them. If you are one of those people who use 35 grit on a DA sander to start removing paint, you wont have any qualms about using normal sand. Its really all what you are comfortable with. Once I found #1 silica sand, I stopped looking and have no interest in using anything else that's more expensive. No chance of warping, a texture level of about 150 grit, and $5 an 80 pound bag. I would use the same respirator safety devices with anything else so see no need to get my panties in a wad over silicosis, mesothelioma, black lung, or anything which is caused my small particulates getting into your lungs. Too much baby powder will do the same thing. Be safe, be responsible. My Quikcrete bags of #1 silica sand *all sand is silica sand* must be pre-Obama because they have no warnings on the bag.. has to do with personal responsibility being the order of the day way back when. I know its a new age and all, but I am like Clint in Grand Torino.. with all that crap.. GET OFF MY LAWN!!

In these forums you will always get 'experts' wafting on about using or doing this or that. Its really incumbent on YOU to do your research and do things YOUR way after educating yourself. You can do it! If I can do it, anyone can!

I have done a bit of heavy duty sand blasting and never felt a panel even get warm let alone get hot enough to warp. I have deformed panels by blasting, but that happens from being too close or staying at one place too long. Think of a sandblaster as 10 billion tiny hammer blows. Stay too long and they add up to a dent.
Carl

Warpage typically won't be a problem for those of using the small sand blasters that run off our home compressors. They simply don't have the horsepower to do the damage.

Kind of like comparing a garden hose to a fire hose...

However if you rent an industrial compressor or have access to one that's where you can get into trouble. I rented one to blast the body on my Model A. The compressor was a V-8, with 4 cyliders used as a compressor. It had enough power to cut holes through thin sheet metal.

Here's a photo of the Tudor getting naked: http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu176/lakeroadster/1931%20Ford%20Tudor/0321991.jpg

Wonder what the facts are wrt sandblasting risk, at some point I need to do the research, perhaps someone has already done so? For example...

How do the health risk of sandblasting (with fine silica)without a proper respirator compare to health risk of painting without a proper respirator? If you tell me they are the same, and by using a respirator in both cases, health risk are still the same, then I'm good with sandblasting with Deve's fine silica with an appropriate respirator.

If sandblasting with fine silica, and an appropriate respirator, exposes me to a multiple (ie 1X, 2X ,etc) of health risk compared to folks that do not sandblast, then the conversation is over and there will be no more talk about sandblasting with fine silica!

It seems the flavor of the day (Deve aside) is soda blasting for body panel paint removal. I've not heard anyone discuss any health risk of soda blasting. It's not good for heavy rust/frames. If the health risk of soda blasting without a respirator is non existent, then I've found my process. If the health risk of sandblasting with fine silica and a respirator are the same as soda blasting without an respirator, then I'm indifferent and will use soda for body panels and sand for frames.

Sorry guys, I'm a numbers and facts guy...all this I think this, or an old restorer said that doesn't work. I will eventually do this research, as I'm almost at this stage, and will post my findings. Would be good if someone else does as well so we have multiple data points for this important topic.

If you tell me that automobile painting with a proper respirator exposes me to some multiple of health risk to folks that do not..then maybe I've picked the wrong hobby and need to spend more time with the horses.

HR John, I am intrigued w/Nickel slag, but it must be abundant in Colo...not so much here in Texas.

The soda in soda-blasting might not be too dangerous, but the small particles of paint being removed might contain lead and should not be breathed-in (a concern associated with any blasting medium).

Good post Allen, and good idea to research. I suspect your health risk even using a respirator not to mention the solvents, chemicals, etc you use to accomplish this hobby would definitely increase your risk over horses. It also has to do with how much of anything you do. If you sandblast everyday then your risk is higher than the guy like me who does it about once every two years. I group all of my work together, then spend a week or so out in the back forty then its over and done for a few years or more. Last time was 4 years ago and I did three entire trucks. Put them in primer, store them until you are ready.

I have done SOME research on silicosis, that's information that is pretty clear. Not as much research on glass beads and other products that turn to dust during the blasting process. So I just don't know what is better for your health, so I just use a respirator.

What I am not so sure about and concerns me more is the new Urethane and Epoxy based paints we use. That is some NASTY stuff that sticks to everything inside and out.

If you're thinking of using the modern best practices approach then epoxy and urethanes are the paints you're looking at using.
if you're heading in that direction then consider the top lines say don't use soda as prep for their paint system.

Some say NEVER... but, if you do then use someone elses brand.

If you can't find blasting material that's safe to use, you're not trying very hard, are lazy, or don't really G.A.S. about your health.

As Tim mentioned...if you think there is any safe way to blast panels, etc. with out wearing protective gear (the exception being an exhaust equipped blast cab) then you might already be overexposed to the lead in those old paints... poor decision making is a sign.

As to warpage I think MP&C covered it here.

Great blast thread. My .02, I always wear a P95 filter when glass beading or sand blasting, even when doing work pouring in sand or glass/sifting the same or operation within a blast cabinet. A good fitting disposable p95 is $15 at Harbor Freight and is good insurance for your health.

With respect to risk... MSDS sheets on whatever product you are using will tell you everything you need to know (blasting media, paint, or whatever).

Coal Slag is what most companies around here use for blasting media. The way I found nickel slag was buy asking the company that sells abrasive what would be best and letting them tell me. They are the experts IMO.

Not sure where you are in Texas but I did a quick google search and found:

http://ttexindustries.com/?page=content&id=36

Buying any safety / health related item from Harbor Freight seems scary...

Might be better to stick with 3M or some other reputable company.

HRJ,

Do you think that Louis M. Gerson Co., Inc. should scare us?

The non-full-mask/hood respirator I got got many years ago from HF was a 3M unit. I guess it works OK (for the past 12 years)?

Yeah Harbor Freight sells Gerson which is NIOSH approved, no problems there. Check it out http://www.gersonco.com/Categories/Cartridge-Respirators.aspx
This is the unit that Harbor Freight sells.

3M's great... as I said in the post I made that you responded to…Harbor Freight sells something other than off shore rip offs of American companies? I wasn't aware of that.
I stopped buying from them about 5 years ago. For me, a guy that's made a living here in the USA as a mechanical design engineer, buying from Harbor Freight is like dealing with the devil.

NAPA sells 3M respirators...

Hot Rod John: Yeah its humid here in Al. Also I don't have any dryers or anything in the line. I was talking about going straight off a home compressor, 220v 20 gal. tank. Compressor will run constantly, too much water to even do small jobs.
TAKE IT TO THE MAN..He will have a six or eight cylinder compressor and about a 1 inch hose. He can do more in 1 hour than I could do in 6 months.
As said above..it's the compressor, not the various rigs you can buy to blast with. You just gotta have a big compressor and no water. Most home compressors just will not do it.
I am sure the small parts cabinets are ok for home compressors. I never tried one yet.