The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay wiring concerns

Hi everyone this is my first post so here goes.
I just bought a 1965 c10 stepside shortbed. on the outside it looks like a million dollers but....
things are not so great under dash, hood regarding wiring. There's a lot of electricians tape everywhere, the wires are old but not bad. After a few miles drive the engine seemed very hot and when I grabbed a wire at back of engine in front of firewall it was real hot with tape all over it.
I'm lost when it comes to wiring so I wont understand tech. talk very well. I have a book on wiring and am waiting for a shop manual. My ?
Should I be worried? and start thinking new harness. There are other problems but one at a time. Appreciate any help.
Thanks!

I definitely fix the wiring first. Hot is relative, was it engine heat or smoking. In anycase the electricians tape doesn't sound good. A wiring harness seems to be a common solution. If you can get a wiring diagram (factory shop manual, library?) trouble shooting the wiring is not all that bad. The wires are all color coded. You just need to follow them point to point.

Larry

Welcome to the Stovebolt RedTruck!

Plastic covered wire has an expected life of about 20 years. Yours is 40 years old. While it might be possible to patch it up and keep it working it may be less demanding to replace it.

I'm sure someone will tell you that repairing the old wire can be done. It often can. But if you are unsure of your skills with electricty you may find it far less trouble to simply replace the harness.

Redtruck,
My '63 was in essentially the same shape when I bought it a year ago. The PO was a bodyman in an earlier incarnation so the body looked reasonable, but he was definitely not a mechanic. Motor was all but shot, leaking oil, rear end leaked, and the worst of all...it looked like a 2 year old had been turned loose under the dash with a pair of craft scissors and some black tape. I doubt that there was a single piece of wire under the dash that didn't have some sort of poor boy splice in it. I tried for about a week to sort it out and properly repair the splices until I started finding wires that had completely melted the insulation off. At that point I decided that avoiding the cost of a new harness was not worth loosing the truck in an electrical fire. I put an EZwire harness in the truck without too much difficulty. There are lots of posts on this site and more resources on the web that will help you through it. My recommendation would be to replace the entire thing.

Thanks for the advice guys.
New harness is on my list but there's other stuff first.
The spark plug wires are so close to the manifolds that a few are actually touching and have melted a little in that spot. there is no way to keep them away except to find some kind of insulation. Is there anything made for that purpose? Others must have had that same problem.

What are your plans with this truck.Just a daily driver, or possible show quality?

I'd rewire the truck.

Use shorter wires? I'm not trying to be a smartass, but if they were shorter, they wouldn't touch the exhaust manifolds.

I have a set of wire looms I like on my 68 327. They are flat aluminum and the width steps down. There are 2 piece black plastic strips to hold the wires, that also step down. I don't remember the name. I did find an ad for them in the current "Rod & Custom". The ad refers to to them as "Real Parts", the advertiser is Streamline Hot Rod Parts. They use the bottom screws on the valve covers, and with straight boots hold the wires well above the exhaust manufolds.

Larry

If you intend to restore your truck you might want to replace the loom.
If you intend to dailey drive the truck it realy depends on your elect. skills weather or not to repalace or repair the loom.
If you want farm truck, cut and splice till stuff works.
Note; replacement of wiring sounds easy, but if you don't know what you are doing maybe you should get a knowlageable freind to help.

I intend to use it as a daily driver but looking good. The spark plug wires are newish and have heavy rubber covering the first 4" its that part that touches the manifold. It looks like the po put a lot of new stuff on to sell it but in a hurry. In time I want it to be a reliable truck so I'll keep working on it as I drive it. For now I'll drive it short distances and keep an eye on that wiring. I have done a lot of trial and error (plenty of error) with parts I didnt know anything about so I'd tackle the wiring harnes when time and space allows.
It is not the origional engine and the manifolds curve out in a way that makes it really hard to keep those wires away--I'll check out "Real Parts" and how short wires would look.

What engine do you have and do you have headers.
If you have a 305 or 350 engine and headers, go to your local parts house and buy some Axcell wires, Get the set with 90% boots on both ends.
I had the same problem with wires getting on the header and burning up. So I bought these wires and now have no more problem. Oh and you can get a set pre-made but I bought a set that I had to put the spark plug end on (they give you the crimp tool in the box).

Yes I do have a 350 engine with headers. Those Axcell wires sound like just the thing. I'll check em out.
I'm glad I found this forum. Everyone is real knowlegable. Thanks for the info.

In trying to repair a horn that does not exist I found that the horn relay and voltage regulator are also missing. What about the wires that are supposed to go to these? I traced the wire from the horn button to the new horn I put in but it did not work. Next I take the steering wheel off--have to check why the directionals canceling device is not working anyway. Do I need to put in the missing parts? Everything else seems to work ok.
Appreciate any and all help.

Sounds like you need a shop manual, unfortunately you'll need the 63 and the 65 supplement. Your truck has been molested, please report previous owners to the Stovebolt Gremlins for just retribution.

You may not need the regulator if the alternator was replaced with one that has the regulator internal to the alternator.

It's not uncommon for the canceling cam to go out on the turn signal switch. The plastic gets' brittle with age. The cams are still available check the vendors links, watch the price I've seen vary $30 for the switch. The question is how much is missing. You say the horn doesn't work. Under the horn button you should find the nut that holds the wheel on and 3 screws that hold a plastic washer and a metal washer. If those 2 washer arn't there the horn don't work. The metal washer shorts (to ground) a copper stud that goes thru the turn signal switch rides on a brass washer.

Larry

Larry,
I just recieved the manual and suppliment. I dont think the alternator has been replaced because it looks old--how can I check to see what type of alternator I have?
How do I find the Stovebolt Gremlins -- I would be happy to report this guy--there are a lot of things wrong with this truck that he denies he knew about-- Impossible to not know.
I took off the aftermarket steering wheel and the washer with a part that pushes a stud that I dont think is copper--looked like aluminum but I'll have to check again. I didnt find a plastic washer. Your info is very helpful--now I have something to go on.

On the alternator, I think they only have one wire going to them, both of my trucks have regulators. Do a search in the archives.

Part of owning an old stovebolt is having to deal with all the previous owners. If you have the patience to stay with it and straighten it out you'll better off for it. You will learn what not to do and it sounds like you know what to do or at least what is right. Good show.

Aftermarket steering wheel, I haven't seen one yet that was installed correctly. The plastice washer holds the metal wave washer in place. The copper stud could be aluminum. Since it's an aftermarket wheel you may have figure if you go enough to make it work, or an adapter kit for. Sorry can't help much there.

If you need some factory crimp terminals to replace wires send me a PM and I'll send you some.

Larry

Larry,
I said alternator but I think it's generator. It has two wires connected in one place and beside it one bigger wire with a plug type end. Today I bought a horn relay and a voltage regulator so I can wire it the way the manual says.
For now I will wire it temporarly and later get the origional types of relay etc. and crimp terminals--thanks for your offer. I have the truck two weeks now and cant drive it legally because it would not pass the state insp. Want to get it out while the weather's still good.
I have another ? Do you happen to know how to wire add on back-up lights at the shifter--have to do that while the steering wheel is off.
Thanks!

Jim

What kind of transmission do you have? Most backup light switches are not not located in the column shift.

PO claimed it is 350 Turbo Transmission--I think it is the origional Powerglide three speed automatic.
What would a turbo trans. look like?
Is the back up switch located at the shift linkage at the transmission?

All powerglides are two speed, If it's a three speed auto, it is probably a turbo-hydro.

Redtruck65MA, It's an alternator, your description fits and and GM quit using generators in 63 or 64.

I went through the factory manuals and could not finding any help on the backup lights. I think OldSub is right there's a switch on the tranny.

Larry

You are right Baldy It is a two speed--what was I thinking. So it must be Powerglide but why did they move the cross section of frame back a few inches to support the tranny?

Larry, Thanks for checking. I was going by the wiring diagrams in both the 1963 and 1965 suppliment It says---ac generator . If it's an alternator how can I tell if it has a built in voltage regulator?

AC generator is just another name for an alternator, regular automotive generators were DC. Generators are long and cylindrical, alternators are short and fat. There will be a box on the firewall to which the alternator is wired if it has an external regulator(the regulator). Are you assuming it's a two speed by the PRNDL, or do you actually feel it shift only once when accellerating from a stop?

Baldy, thanks for clearing that up. It is an alternator with no regulator on firewall. Is it possible to drive without a regulator?
The reason I ask is the po changed a lot of stuff. There is no horn relay. I think you can wire directly to the horn but I dont know if it's better not to.
I took the steering wheel off and all wiring looks good the horn problem must be somewhere else. Could not figure out why the directionals dont cancel--all parts look alright. Tomorrow is another day.
Almost forgot. it is PRND21 so its three speed and it shifts twice--the tranny looks old -- cant figure it either.

The PO would have to have installed an internally regulated alternator if there is no regulator on the firewall, so it's probably OK. A turbo-hydro could look, and be, 40 years old.

The horn wire supplies ground to the horn or horn relay when the button is pressed. That wire goes to the horn and the othe terminal on the horn needs to be hooked to a +12V source. Both terminals on the horn must be isolated from ground, except when the horn button is depressed.

The directions I got with the horn shows two ways to wire it--there is single and dual terminal mounting instructions. I wired for single (trial and error again) where one wire goes to the horn mounting bolt. The other way is the way you decribe--I'll try that next. It would be easier if everything on the truck was the same as in the manual--no wonder I'm confused. But it's a learning experience.
Thanks Baldy for all your help.

It would make little sense for someone to remove the horn relay to the extent that you couldn't see where it was located. If the horn didn't work, most people would either ignore it or fix it. My '67 has that relay under the dash, on the inside of the firewall. A '65 wiring diagram that I looked at, shows it under the hood, but anything is possible. You had the wheel off. follow the horn wire through the column plug and see where it goes.
[img]http://www.rowand.net/Shop/Tech/images/GmAlternatorIdentification.jpg[/img]
The two wire plug on the SI internal regulated alternator, plugs into the top or side depending on orientation. The DN alt. with external regulated has a two wire plug, that plugs in from the rear. The reg, if it has one, might be on the radiator support, drivers side.
Three speed column shifts have the back-up light switch on the top of the column, under the dash, at the firewall. Automatics have that switch and neutral/park safety lock-out switch in the same location.

P.S. Ignore the wiring on the DN and the SI. Contrary to popular belief, it's wrong. The single wire on the CS is the "L" wire and goes to a resistor and/or idiot lamp and then to the ign. switch. The CS-130D must have the "L" and the "I", both connected, but through a lamp and a resistor, respectively.

Richard,
I finally found that the wire from the horn button area had been cut just outside the firewall and was taped over along with all the other wires going to the lights. I wired the horn up the way Baldy decribed and it works. Thanks Baldy...

It's interesting that the back-up light switch is in the same place as the neutral/park safety switch because neither works. I hope they are on the column and still work. That's now on my list.
Thanks for all your help.

redtruck65MA - Looms are the answer for those plug wires.

Same as others here, my truck was a nightmare of wires when I got it! Let's face it ... 50 years makes for a whole lot of botch jobs!

Check out my EZ-Wire project / photo-diary:
HERE