The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts Removed the outer wheel. But the inner one is STUCK

I have managed to remove the nuts that holds the outer rear wheel.
The inner rim is now hanging ont the bolts that has a square fitting in the outer end. Do I have to remove these bolts for the inner rim to come off ???
Or is it just a matter of using a big sledge hammer and give it a punch or two ?

Or are the threaded bolts sitting on other bolts coming out from the brake drum ? I mean are these bolts threaded on both inside and outside ?

It took me half day to just get the outer rim nuts to give up. But finally they did

Hy lastchancetowing, yes the objects with the square end are indeed the inner wheel nuts, once you remove them the wheel will come off. Don't forget the left side of the vehicle should have left hand threaded wheel mounting hardware, there should be a small "L" in the center of the inner nuts to remind us, hope that helps.

The 4-end bolts have an R on the right side and a L on the left side. Does this mean I shall turn the 4-end bolts the same direction as I did with the outer wheel nut ?
In that case, why did not the wheel nut pull the bolt out too then ? Or is the inner bolt supposed to be turned the other way ?

if it has an R on it everything about it is normal threaded, anti-clockwise is loosen.

If it has an L on it everything about it is left handed thread, clockwise is loosen.

I POURED penetrating oil all over the bolts.
Just need to find a 13/16" square socket somewhere around here ... will be really easy

A Budd wheel socket is one tool to fit both the inner and outer nut.
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...oup_ID=675686&store=&dir=catalog
or just the square
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...ede=&store=snapon-store&tool=all

Should be common enough even in Sweden.

I have never seen a ball and seat wheel in Europe. I looked through a catalog of KS which is kind of the equivalent of our Ken Tool. http://www.kstools.com/de/flippdf/K11/Lkw/Lkw_D/files/lkw_gesamt_ob.pdf

I can't find a square socket for the inner nut. If you can't find one in Europe, I will be in Germany middle of next month and it is reasonable to mail something within the EU. A made in USA inner nut 1" drive socket can be bought for about $36 which is about €27.

Hello,AGAIN,Ulf!! I did the exact same thing today,on the '59 Viking!! (Small world)! In order for us to loosen any of the bolts,we had to use an industrial impact wrench. Make sure to hold on tight,and don't lose concentration,for a second! Those things have SUPER TORQUE,and just about took my friend's nose off,a couple of times! Luckily,the impact also loosened MOST of the inner BOLTS,as well. On the stubborn ones, we used the 13/16" bar,that came with the bus,along with a 5' "breaker" bar. One of us would stand/jump,on the bar,as the other hit the bolt,kind of like a manual impact wrench. We have had no luck removing the hubs. we can pry them from the back-side,but seem to "spring" back into place,as soon as pressure is released. Yes,we turned in the "Stars". No sign of hub freeing itself from axle,though. We even used a torch,to no avail. I saw a thread on this subject 2-3 weeks ago,and try to use the method(s) from that post. I'll send you a P.M. B.T.W...Glad you still have your Viking!

On early trucks, most times, the studs are pushed through the drum in to the hub. When you want to separate them you need to push the studs out. Can be done with a hammer and a drift but better in done on a press.

Budd nut #1

Budd nut #2

Thanks all.
I have a friend who owns a tire shop. That's where I got the outer nuts loosened. Drove home with all 6 bolts just barely tightened.
I still had to use a socket and wrench tool and put a LONG tube on top and JUMP them lose

They have the tools for these inner bolts too. I will go there today and borrow one.
They use them because Toyota have the SAME setup in newer smaller trucks with dual rear wheels

They didn't have the 13/16 socket. BUT I did find it at a toosl shop, they order from factory, takes 4 days to get it.
Made in Flen Sweden, just 40km from where I live !!!
Powersocket cost me 50 usd
So in mid next week I can finally start working on the brakes ( if I can get the drum off )
But that is another story

Guess I was lucky on mine. A neighbor had a HUGE 4-way lug wrench he let me use. It has 3 sizes for lugbolts and one for the square-end, inner lugbolts. I put one end on the lug and the other end on a concrete block, then with a 10 ft. pipe slipped over the 4-way and jumped up and down and got all mine off.
Matter of fact, he just gave it to me. They don't make a 4-way that strong anymore!

I just got my new socket:
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x264/uffeg/20130730_145942_zps6879f09a.jpg
And I was just about to start removing the studs when heaven opened up and poured BUCKETS over me.
But I tested ONE and it gave up on my new socket and a LOOOONG tube over the wrench !!

Next step is, WAIT FOR SUN !! Then remove all of them.
After that start fighting with next obstacle: The brake drum

Yep, sometimes you have to use brute force, like the 8 ft. long pipe. A 3/4 impact won't do it sometimes.
Mine would not remove the pinion nut on the rear end. Had to use a long pipe. Lucky I did not have a bed on it.

I have a wide bed on mine. Have to ose a longer shaft, and put a jackstand on the ground to support the longer shaft

That's where a 1" gun with a big air hose comes in handy.

When I took my wheels off the 1st time I got nowhere with the wheel tool I had and nothing in the shop I was working at budged them. I had to take the hub apart, pull the wheels drum and hub as one unit, then took them to a tire shop that handles trucks. They had a splined 1" impact gun that looked like a jack hammer, spun them off no problem.

Victory !!
Both Wheels are now off the truck !!

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x264/uffeg/20130731_092542_zpsb0f1706b.jpg

A small picture of the tools I used

Next step, drum removal

Yet another victory today :
The drum is also gone !!

Used a screwdriver as seen in the picture here, square handle where a wrench fits. Leaned all my own weight on it and bam they went lose.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x264/uffeg/20130731_105209_zpsa7c39b26.jpg

The drum came off after a couple of pounds with a sledge.
The brakeshoes are thick. Will try to remove the rust and remove the wheelcylinders and see if they move at all.
If not I will need new cylinders. All springs are there, so I guess it must be stuck cylinders.

Also, SOMEONE ELSE lives inside my drum !!

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x264/uffeg/20130731_105218_zps75e57700.jpg

Tried to apply a little brake pressure with the pedal, only the rear wheelcyl opens a little bit, the front cyl does nothing.
So I guess I will need to remove both and try to repair them or just simply buy new ones.
Maybe the reason for only the rear cyl to open is due to the drum is off ?
But I thought the fron one is the most important one.

At least this explains the bad brake on this side. I hade to beat the shoes to free everything up. But the front cyl will not compress or decompress

Can somone explain what Geoffrey at Alretta Truck Parts means with this comment:
"I'm sure I'll have wheel cylinders. I'll want you to check the show table width: 4", 4.5", or 5"? I hope these shall not be a problem."

Is it the cylinders or shoes I shall check ? and how

Brake Shoe width?? Maybe different cylinders go with each brake show size/width. Your project is going well. So far so good.

SimS

It looks inside exactly as in page 6-19 in the shop manual.

So I guess he will be able to choose the right parts. The shoes are 4" wide.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x264/uffeg/20130731_124405_zps42d24bbb.jpg

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x264/uffeg/20130731_124516_zpsfc47b54f.jpg

Hy lastchancetowing, Geoff wants to know the brake shoe width, I believe 4" width is Bendix (crossover brake line is inside the drum) the wider shoes are Wagner brake systems I believe (crossover brake line on backing plate). Your pictures are of Bendix brakes, if you damage the crossover line DO NOT THROW AWAY THE TUBE NUTS WITH THE DAMAGED LINE, these nuts have a different pitch than the standard tube nuts and are hard to find. You can transfer the Bendix nuts to the new crossover line you fabricate and you'll only have to make one flare on one end, hope that helps.

Thanks...
I mailed him all info and attached a couple of pics.

And the crossover line seems to be in very good condition. I will be very very careful when I remove the wheelcylinders so I can reduce the risk of harming the nuts or the tube.

The good thing is , I now know why the braks were bad on one side since only one cylinder works, the front of the two is really stuck.

Geoffrey is of course right when he says you shall always change shoes and cylinders on both sides at the same time.
But, breaks are very good on left side.
Even the right side works on one cylinder, even the shoes are good and the drum looks perfect inside.
Maybe just remove the cylinder and see if I can get it to work better and then change it all during winter.

"The wheel cylinders should be replaced in pairs. Never do only one side: that's a fast way to put back pressure in the other side and have that leak. Wet shoes are ruined. Remember, no brake drums are available!"

So I ask for opinons here please.
Do a complete change ? Or try a quick and dirty ?

If everything looks good, material, springs, etc., just rebuild the left and right wheel cylinders and call it a day.

I have new cylinders and adjusting kit for right side in the air somewhere between Alretta Truckparts and here
300 USD including international fast shipping is a bargain !!

But I will remove the cylinders and check the numbers, since both Volvo and Scania used Bendix brakes in the 50's and 60's.

Just got a SMS from post office. My parts are here !!
Now I will see how stuck the cylinders are to my truck
The springs will surely be a struggle to get out without shooting them to the next county. they are NOT that small

I get so happy when I receieve a mail like this:


Yes but I had pressure everywhere wnd no air, just changed the right rear cylinders, so I don't think air travel all over the pipes.

But we'll see, I will bleed it tonight, caught a nasty cold so haven't been able to proceed.

Another thing, how happy do you get when you receive these kinds of mails ? VERY !!

Ulf,

Just a verification that parts arrived and its all good?

Geoff

--------------------------
Alretta Truck Parts, Inc.
Bldg.#5B, 2nd floor
One Watson Place
Framingham, Ma. 01701

Tel# 508-788-9409
Fax# 508-788-9499

Mail to:

Alretta Truck Parts, Inc.
PO Box 596
Sherborn, Ma. 01770-0596

http://www.alretta.com

"Where Parts are a Science and Service is an Art!" 

Strange I tried to post this twice tonight but only empty boxes appeared. Maybe web service was doing backups or something ?
Anyhow the point I wanted to make is that there is almost NOWHERE existing a company where they send amial asking if your parts got home alright

Ulf, when you paste something in from another application [the e-mail], you need to change the drop box below to "using HTML and UBBCode" in order for the software to recognize the coding

Bill

Aha... sorry, would have known. Should have copied to notepad to get rid of all formatting first.

Tried to post in several posts, same problem

Thanks for pointing it out, I am a IT loser