The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Original vs Resto Mod prices

I am trying to decide whether to retore a stovebolt back to original vs updating the suspension, motor, etc. I have looked at some mostly original for sale on the internet and have seem them from $15,000 up to $55,000. They all looked similar in quality so I want to know what makes some worth more than others? Is it documentation or original without being redone?

Thanks

an untouched original in very good condition should fetch a higher price than a 'restored' one, but when you look at what folks ask, what you don't see is what folks get, if anything .... any vehicle is worth what someone will pay for it, so if you're concerned about the "return on your investment", you don't wanna be "investing" in an old truck, there might not be a buyer by the time you decide to "cash in" which is to say, do whatever you prefer to it, with the understanding either route will cost you more than you'll recover

Bill

You can not restore anything 'back to original'.

Agreed. In that vein my '38 isn't "original" any longer but the restoration was pretty faithful to the original look and equipment. The reason prices for original vehicles is shooting up is that there are so few of them left. When you go to a car show you see row after row of lowered, SBC powered vehicles of different colors. Other than color and a few accessories they are all the same. Then there's my '38 standing tall and proud looking very nearly how it did when new. It's always a hit at shows and Grundy amazes me at how much they think it's worth. Different strokes for different folks but it's only original once. I really wish I hadn't had to paint mine but the rust worms were winning so attention was required.

Why doesn't anyone ever call it a "Stock" restoration when they say "Original"?
In Fact... What's the name for a Stock Resto, if a Modified (engine/running gear/etc) is a "Resto Mod"?

For instance...
There's this guy I know doing a full on restoration of a Stock truck but not to 'Factory' spec's... i.e. No 350/350 transplant, No Mustang II front end, no chopping or channeling, just rebuilt stock as it was... BUT with Non factory paint. Insulation, sound deadening was added, cab seams sealed and filled etc.
What would you call something like that???
A Mild Custock?

res·to·ra·tion [res-tuh-rey-shuhn], noun
1. the act of restoring; renewal, revival, or reestablishment
why does it need any "modifier"?

as most of these old things are being brought back from the dead, call it a resurrection

Bill

I think it depends on what you are going to do with it. I am all for stock vehicles. My 1940 Chevy WB 1-1/2 ton was bought brand new by my Grandfather and only has 21,000 original miles. The seat was recovered in the early '50's. The truck was repainted in the mid '50's, but everything else besides tires, fluids, plugs, etc is original. But I would not want to drive this truck everyday, it is just too slow and not safe for everyday use.

My 1939 GMC 1/2 ton was in very solid condition, but the motor was bad when I bought it. I wanted to keep it looking as stock as possible on the outside, but upgraded to a 270 GMC engine, 5-speed trans, late model rear axle and disc brakes. That way I can drive it every day and enjoy it, while still being relatively safe.

I think it all depends on the person and the vehicle. To me the main thing is to get out there and drive them and have fun!

Like a software upgrade?
Resurrection is a good description... with a face lift.

I like the no modifier. Use plain simple English and no one will know!

Actually I chose to restore as stock because I knew I could handle that and also with 'the next guy' in mind.
When that time comes, He/She will get a very drive-able stock truck on todays roads. New Bendix all around/rebuilt 270/3speed/3.7?(I think I don't remember) and I may split the exhaust old school style just for S's and G's...
And at the same time something they could 'play' with making mods to without having to use torches to work on it.
Resurrected with a face lift. I like it.

Restoration like the definition, to return to original like condition.
Theres tons and tons of modified trucks and cars out there. And yes technically adding a patch panel is a modification of sorts.

In the end the factory stock will always have more value. Like the above post the guy mentioned everyone has a lowered truck, it really isn't something different.
The whole reason for interest in an "OLD" car or truck is to have it like it was in the day. So why would anyone want to put a different suspension or what ever in? Get a newer vehicle if that is what you want. I like that these old trucks actually feel like a truck. And years ago people drove them as daily drivers and lived with it. As a kid my dad complained about wanting a softer ride, I still cann't figure out why. I liked it like it was. If you need a soft ride get an old lexus.
The biggest problem doing modifications is, yeah do it your way, but there are lots of do it your ways forsale. Every time I see an ad for a TF truck, I say to myself. Well if you would have just done a stock resto I'd be wanting to purchase it. All I see when looking at a moded truck is all the work to return it back to what it should be. Its easier to deal with rust than to try to return a screwed up frame back to the factory look. Try it, get one and take off that mustang suspension and weld the frame back up. Where do the holes go? Where do you get the channel? Who's going to shape the channel? Think about 20 years from now when there are no more rust buckets and parts left, as all have been cut and modified out of existance, like I said the value will always be in the stock resto, I kinda prefer to call it preservation.

Alkay's thinking is exactly what defines a "restored" or untouched original or preserved truck vs restomod. It's why I prefer restomod. It is the best of two worlds I like. For driveability, reliability, safety AND nostalgia, a restomod is ideal. That's what I build most of the time. Restomod is the official term for: modern, updated drivetrain: some suspension, steering and brake upgrades with the original body and interior. But everyone has their own opinion about what kind or "restore" or "preserve" to do. They are very well liked by many and fetch great prices at Barrett-Jackson and such. Some restomods are very subtle and can be returned to near original. Plenty of aftermarket parts require little or no mods. I'm not talking about a Camaro front end and different frame and ford 9". When you start doing that stuff you are building a Hot Rod, a Custom, a Modified or "restoRod". I also like completely stock "barn find" type trucks with patina,that are fixed up with new original type parts to run around town in, but not the highway. I do not have the money, time and expertise for a full-on "restore". I also find that buyers of those are too picky, few a far between and, as has been said, too much "investment" to risk. I also think I would be paranoid about scratches, hail, people touching it, and everything else in my crazy mind that could happen, which would take the fun out of driving/showing/owning it.

Thank you for all the feedback and I apologize for creating an issue about the "restore to original" comment. I suppose if we want to be literal about the word original, we would need the original tires and oil as well. Next time I will be careful to talk about restoring like original.

Thanks Again.

No apology necessary, you can say what you think here, pretty much. Your opinion is your opinion. We like to talk old trucks with anyone. When someone says don't call it this or that, it's just their opinion. Some members are tight and some are loose. No big deal. There is no harm intended. Welcome to the Stovebolt! 99% of the issues have been discussed before and we rehashed one of them on your post.
Also to answer you original question. You don't say what era you are speaking of: On here, Stovebolt can be 1916-1972, the Guru's have allowed a broader definition of Stovebolt than 1929-1962. You also say $15K-$55K, that's a large gap. You have covered a pretty nice moderate resto/nice running barn find, all the way to a show truck. Don't know what era or quality you want/need. Some prices reflect actual quality of resto, some reflect what they need for profit and some are just crazy. Educate yourself here and at swap meets, in magazines and car shows and you will see the differences. But you have to actually see these trucks in person. Then, of course, it's all about available funds, motivation, time. There are a lot of do's and don't's if you decide to restore. The first mistake is to buy one that is too rusty, second mistake is going to a catalog and ordering everything, but that's easy and fun. First thing to do is derust/stop rust, weld, bang, straighten, clean and sweat. No money involved, just work. If you are up for that, you can handle a "restore or preserve". peace out.

as many on this site have said, It's your truck do whatever you want with it" and I agree, however your choice will probably affect its resale value unless your buyer has the same tastes and frame of mind as you the seller. My own opinion is there are plenty of like minded potential buyers out there, Original or modified.

I recall one show I was at with my modified Suburban where a complete stranger came up to me and gave me holy he$$( for destroying a rare body style. I tried to explain that I wanted to be able to drive it anywhere and not impede traffic. You can't tell my Sub from stock unless you open the hood or get under it but he kept at me so I finally told him to go
find his own truck and do whatever he wants to it and I would never tell him what to do. He finally left me alone.




Weeds

Amen Weeds. The worst words I sometimes hear when I show my completed truck is: "Looks nice, when are you going to finish it?" Ouch!

When people say 'back to original', I think we all know what they mean. I see no need to harp on it every time it comes up. Let's give it a rest.

This is a technical website. I think proper terms should be used.

Restored to original style/type/spec equipment sounds right (except, we would argue over reproduction equipment meeting original specifications).

Unfortunately, if you look at trucks being sold as being "all original equipment", I bet that almost none of them are anywhere even near original "style/type" equipment. Cletis's point is almost always well-stated, especially when someone says they are doing an original r4estoration with drop axle, and/or disc brakes, and/or small block engine, and/or 12v conversion, and/or fancy radio, and/or "updated" wiring, and/or, "modern upgraded" tie-rod ends, and/or . . .

There is nothing at all wrong with any modification/upgrade - it is the owner's truck. It is just not original, nor is it original-type/style equipment.

RFrohlich,

You asked a good question. You got more than you asked for, but did you get your question answered?

Okay, I'll add my 2 cents worth......

All mine are frame off restur-something-or-others. All have upgraded suspensions, power sterring, power disc brakes and a/c (we are in Florida). I love to look at stock trucks, but don't really care to own one and usually pass on them when they are for sale. When we look at a truck to purchase, the first thing my boys ask me is "What are we going to do to it?".

Recently I blew out my right rotator cusp. If my toys were stock I wouldn't be driving them for 6 months - no thanks!

I can agree that un modified upgrades are a good thing, meaning not cutting or welding or drilling.
Brakes for one. Meaning using a dual system that bolts into the original spot. The main huge problem with any sort of mods is, soon it wipes out the knowledge of what is correct and what is not. You would be suprized at how many people that think they know what is correct on these trucks is not, like some of the parts houses. And it will only get worse as time goes on.

lol...glad to see this debate goes on here, as well as other forums I've visited.

You asked a good question...and everyone will have their opinions as restoring, or restomod, (I won't even get into the fact that many have no idea what the word restoration means) so in the end, it really is up to you...but I hate just saying that, so since you asked, here are my 0.02

It all depends on what you like, and the condition of your truck. If your truck is nearly complete, and pretty much stock/original, then I think it would be a crime to "restomod" it with a newer engine, suspension, radio...etc. I'm not going to mince words here, but if a restomod is what I wanted, then I would find a buyer for the nearly stock/original truck, and go out and buy a more "beat up" truck, and restomod that one to the 9s!!

I am a purist, but I know I will probably never find the gem I am looking for, so I will content myself with finding the right truck for me, and restoring it to as close to original stock as I can. Now, that doesn't mean that I do not appreciate all the hard work people have put into their mods, cause I do, but as mentioned before...only so many SBC or crate engine builds can make their rides stand out against all the other, virtually similar builds...

I'll go a step farther...do not build this with resale in mind...you will never get out of it, what you put into it. This has to be a labor of love, and as such, you need to be true to what your dreams are, or you'll never be happy!

Good luck with which ever way you go

seems like another guy wrote that "purist" line, not RFrolich

I'm not a purest, but I really like the way my 1962 truck looked in factory trim. So while I am putting it back together, I am finding as many factory options to include as the build progresses.

Most of the items are year specific to the '62, but I have made a few changes that "could have" been done in the day. The grill was missing, but I had a 1960 grill that was in good shape. Could have been changed if the original had been damaged. (bolt on). My 230 went bad, but I had a 327 in the garage. Could have happened, that motor was availible in other models at the time. I did change the bed from a fleetside to a stepside, but that was just another factory option. I even used the old Ramhorn style exhaust manifolds.

Otherwise, I am running the factory correct drum brakes, manual steering, factory suspension, etc.. I even tracked down an original steel drum style fan shroud to help cool it down in the summer.

Call it what you want, I will have a truck I enjoy driving and will be proud to be seen in. From the outside, it will look fairly stock.

Lighten up on the new guy.

What Bartamos posted is an extract from the first post, but Bartamos did not extract the original question and its appropriate context:

I am trying to decide whether to retore a stovebolt back to original vs updating the suspension, motor, etc.

I have looked at some mostly original for sale on the internet and have seem them from $15,000 up to $55,000. They all looked similar in quality so I want to know what makes some worth more than others? Is it documentation or original without being redone?"

He is referring to the mostly original examples that he has seen for sale, and he wants to know why the differences in prices for those supposedly mostly original trucks.

My 54 is resto mod and is worth what i can get some one too offer and less than half of what i have in it. but i still like it.

Ron,

Luckily, I think I could almost get back what I have in my Suburban (at 10 years ago cost and present $$). It is almost true to original type equipment (it has 2-3 differences/modifications, once I get the 235 back in for the temporary "stand-in" 261).

I'll never sell it, though.

Again, I appreciate all the feedback. Let me tell you a little about my truck. I recently pulled it out of a barn on our family farm. My understanding is that our family is the second owner as it came in a barn that was sold with some land. It was used as a work truck but has been in a barn for the last 15 years. My understaning is that it has the original paint on it and from pictures of other trucks it seems to be correct. Green cab with black fenders and running boards. The body has very little rust on it with a little on the back of the cab and a few other random quarter size spots. Outside of that it has some small dents and the rear fenders are a little beat up. I could not find a vehicle identification tag anywhere that I was told to look and the engine number that I found didn't add up either. The engine number on the flange by the starter is 869947. I finally found what appears to be a homemade plate that has some numbers on it and at least leads me to believe it is a 46. The other numbers don't seem to add up based on the formula provided on the internet. You can view a picture below.

My original question stems from not knowing if there are certain things that make some of these trucks way more valuable than others. For example, if I don't have the original serial number and title does that drop the value by a ton? If so, maybe its not a big deal to have it look original but update the suspension and add some items for comfort. If all that matters is that it is as close to original as possible than certainly I would need to keep it that way. Resale value is not a concern as I ma not planning on selling it as it will probably always be in the family. Having said that, I certainly don't want to take a truck that could be worth $50,000 and make it worth $20,000 by adding some different equipment or buying new rear fenders.

In conclusion, I am sure I made plent of errors in my grammer/description/names of things for the veterans/purist of the site. Let the corrections begin.


http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag132/rafrohlich/truck/TruckPlate_zpsf71bddaa.jpg

Oh, I see...hard to say what the value will be, as it all depends on the buyer, and how long down the road. It has already been discussed on other forums that the new and younger generations are not into cars anymore like we are...many don't buy cars, pushing the big automakers to re-evaluate what they are doing...and more surprisingly...there has been a huge drop in how many 16 year old kids going to get their drivers permits each year!! So who are going to buy our toys 5...10...20 years down the road?? Do it cause you love it, and you'll be happy either way.

Personally, I would pay more for an original as possible truck, vs one with a new crate engine, drop spindles, 12 bolt rear end...etc, as it is easier to mod one like that, than it is to find one still stock...or to hunt down the parts need for a proper restoration...but what do I know!! I see restomod trifives selling for WAY more than originals...kinda of sad actually...

I took a look the pic of your tag...kinda new to this side of older Chevrolet, but it looks like it might be an original tag that was painted over to me...I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. Just check out the google images, and you'll see what I mean; type in 1949 chevy pickup vin tags

If you don't plan of selling, it makes no difference what the end price will be, but even at that, I do not think you'll lose out much, BUT, if your truck is as stock as you say it is, I'd still go as close to stock as I could, and paint as little of it as possible...probably only painting the black and save the original, green paint!

You have any pics of your truck?

Again, all this is just my 0.021

My bad. Sorry.

Very cool that there is so much out there to restore these old bolts!

Interesting responses. I consider mine priceless as I pretty much built it completely myself and stock steering, suspension, and brakes work for me when driving like I stole it in traffic as I know they were renewed properly. Paint color, stereo, mag wheels, engine hop ups, etc. make it everything I want but if someone after me wants a completely as original truck no butchery took place to prevent it. I guess that's where the line is for some but for everyone just make sure you have fun with it.

Wow, this thread has some legs! My opinion: When someone says "restored to original condition" I generally understand that that means new/repo parts just like it came from the factory. Color and all. I generally fit in the category of restoring vehicles like they came from the factory. But, for me, these trucks are just to primitive for comfortable modern us, so I am changing a few things that can all be undone by any future buyer. Such as:

Modern brakes: front disks, dual master cylinder, vacuum booster.
Higher axle gear ratio
Air Conditioning.
12V electrical system with alternator
Sound system (hidden, no metal cutting or hole drilling for speakers)
Seat belts (this does require added holes, but safety trumps everything else).
Turn signals.
Bed wood. Going with Ipe which is super hard and almost indestructible.
Sound deadening

But, to each his own. I don't fault anyone on how they treat their own vehicle. After all, they own it.

DavidF,
Do you mean lower axle ratio? Like going from 4.11 to 1, to 3.55 to 1. Can you explain the bed wood you plan on using?

Going from 4.11 to say 3.55 is "raising" the axle ratio, or "taller" gears. Counter-intuitive, but I believe I have that correct. Sort of like saying "lower" the a/c to make is cooler.

Ipe (E-pay) is a very dense (it sinks when placed in water) south American wood generally used for decking material. The life expectancy of Ipe when used for decking is 50+ years without any stain, paint, sealer of any kind. Very much harder/denser than oak. Dimensionally stable. Starts off with a redish/mahogany color, but quickly weathers to a uniform gray color. Ipe is also commonly known as Iron Wood. Fasteners (nails or screws) must have pilot holes otherwise, you are NOT going to drive them into the wood.

"taller gears" means a lower ratio (a lower number ratio) to my simple mind. "gear heads" seem to have another interpretation of what lower ratio means?

You're correct on your interpretation, but many others get confused.

"Low ratio" is like granny "LOW". High ratio is like high gear.
7:1 is a low ratio, and 0.7:1 is a high ratio. Meaning the out put from the transmitting device is either high speed or low speed as compaired to the speed put into it. The torque is inverse to the speed. With no frictional losses and other mechanical losses the Horse power remains the same through the system.

So 3.9:1 is lower gears than 3.55:1. In direct gear in the transmission which is 1:1, with a 3.9:1 the engine turns 3.9 times to make the rear tires turn 1 time.

There seems to be a mixing of apples and oranges here. One can call it whatever one wants in order for it to make sense to that person. But to equate a ratio of 3.9:1 is a lower ratio than 3.55:1 is numerically incorrect. Isn't that like saying, "Manuel having 9 apples, has less apples than Pablo who has 5 apples. Or, once again, I may be all wet and should just shut up and get back out in the garage and fix something.
Carl

yes Carl, back to the garage the "numbers" involved are ratios, not apples - as said above: low gear, 2.9:1, is lower than 2nd gear at 1.68:1, which is lower than high gear, which is 1:1

Bill

Tall gears would be a high ratio, numerically lower (example; 3.08:1) Old MoPars were known for this, especially in the B block cars. A low gear, or short gear, would be numerically higher (example, 4.11:, 4.57:1). It does sound backwards, but then again, consider sheet metal or wire gauges, the higher the number, the thinner the sheet or wire diameter is.