The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Tool Chest TIG welder question

I just completed a short course in TIG welding -- still not real great at it, but I get it and I can weld respectably. I was going to buy the Miller Multimatic 200 combo TIG, MIG Stick welder but learned it does not have AC capability for TIG aluminum welds, nor does it have HF so it's touch start for TIG. The Mig part is same as the Miller 211 so that would be good. Since I prefer TIG I have now decided to go with the more TIG complete Miller Dynasty 180 TIG welder, but have heard both good and bad about it. Anybody here ever use one - know much about it? Thanks -

Dale

I have heard that the dynastys are great tig units, but have yet to try one. Aluminum welding takes a lot of power compared to steel. Make sure you get one that can do more than what you want, has a good duty cycle and has a liquid cooled torch if you want to do a lot of aluminum. If you get an under powered unit you will be very dissapointed.

My mistake - this is a Diversion 180, not a Dynasty - Dynasty models are 200 models plus. The duty cycle on the Diversion 180 is 20% at 230V, 35% at 115V. That would imply a lot of down time it would seem. Thanks for mentioning duty cycle SJ. I most likely won't be doing much aluminum, mostly steel and some stainless, occasional aluminum. The $ difference going from Diversion to Dynasty is double - close to $4k for the Dynasty 200, which does have much higher duty cycle. Probably more machine than an occasional welder like me would need. Thanks for your thoughts. It's caused me to do more homework before deciding.
Dale

You can get a very good mig welder that can do thicker material than a comprable tig unit for the same dollars. The wire feed unit will be able to do both steel, and stainless steel. After some practice you'll be able to lay down some really nice welds. You can get a spool gun later that will hook up to the mig unit and do aluminum welds as well. The spool gun will make nice welds and wont soften the metal as much as the tig. I just purshased a little maxstar 180 it's not high freq. but does have lift arc which is a lot better than scratch starting. If you really want a tig unit there nice and portable and not to pricey.

I have a dynasty 200DX at home and another at work, they are fantastic machines!

Good point about the capability on heavy aluminum, I've tried and failed to weld 1/2" thick if the part has any size/mass to it, just can't get enough heat in it. For 1/4" and less it works great.

The stick welding function is also really nice and works very easy.

Grigg

Yeah Grigg -- the 200DX is a great welder. For my little use though I would be way over invested. The Diversion 180 is a fair machine, but long-term I now I think it would be less capable than what I expect now from a good TIG welder. At school I practiced each day on a 200DX and it allowed me to do some nice work. It is in my opinion a good long-term buy. For now though, I think I am going with the Multimatic 200 -- that gives me the MIG (same as the 211), stick, and somewhat watered down TIG capability. At least it's a good starter machine with fairly strong MIG. Later (when I'm a little more experienced) I will go for the dedicated TIG capability in a separate stronger machine like the 200DX. Thanks for all the advice - now on to put this info from each of you to work. Thanks for all the responses!

Dale

If TIG is what you really want, the reason you're buying a welder to start with, then I'd urge you to opt for as good a TIG welder as you can afford/see the need for, not a "watered down" version.
I use mine frequently and really appreciate having a machine that can do more than I can, and as I learn more the machine is ready with more features and options I can use. I'd be frustrated if the machine were holding me back.
Only occasionally do I wish I had a MIG welder, and I'm sure one day I'll get one, but with a good TIG welder already in the shop a MIG is not high on my list.

Grigg

I agree with Grigg. It's always better to do it right the first time.

We've only recently picked up a Miller TIG, but I haven't really had a chance to play with it much yet. The go to machine is still the Millermatic 252 with .035 wire for most of the shop jobs. I just set up an old Miller 200 with .023 wire for playing with thinner stuff. I have done a few things with the Syncrowave 350 LX, enough to realize I need more practice!

Before you pull out your wallet for a nice TIG, grab a MIG gun and build some actual projects.

TIG has it's place, but i don't often have the time for it. Your life may be different, but for me, I reach for the MIG because it is easier, faster, and I am just trying to get something done. (I have a nice invertor AC/DC high frequency digital TIG on the same welding cart.)

A MIG big enough to pull a spool gun is about 1/2 the price of a nice TIG, and will weld just about everything the TIG will, (short of magnesium or titanium) and do it much faster. My 2 cents worth!

Okay - so I finally did it -- I had ordered a new Miller Dynasty 200 DX, then all of a sudden on the 4th of July shows up on local Craigslist a 200DX, used, for half the price of new, with all the equipment including foot pedal, torch, lots of filler rod, bottle of argon,tools and sticks. It's a 2008 model used by a hobbyist, but hasn't been used for more than two years. It looks like new, so I bought it. Went to plug it in and noticed the green ground wire hanging out - cut away from the cable. Single phase, 3 prong 220 plug. Opened the plug, and red and white are wired to the hots, black to the ground. Does that seem right?? Surprised me me so I stopped. Maybe electrical forum question? PO passed on so can't ask him why. Thanks for any help ---

Dale

Dynasty 350 minimum or a 350 syncrowave. That is if you plan on welding aluminum.

Yeah -- thanks, I get that, but did you see my question on the plug? Not sure it's safe to use this welder until I resolve the plug wiring question. I did write to Miller also about it, but no response yet. Thanks again,

Dale

It sounds like the guy had some extra 4-wire laying around and used it instead of buying the right wire? You need to open up the plug and open up the welder to see how it's wired. If it's single phase you should be on Black for power, White for common, and Green for ground if I'm not mistaken. Make sure the plug and breaker and gauge of wire are correct for the amperage. Cut the extra wire back on both ends and tape it up.

Congrats on the new purchase and have fun! Wish I had one in the garage as well!

you should wait to hear from Miller what the wire colors mean, the machine can be used on various power supplies with the wiring needing to be adapted for them, maybe the dead PO had an odd setup in his shop and used a standard 220 plug he happened to have handy in a "personalized" way

Bill

240v Welders usually have only three wires. Two hot 120 legs and ground. If the previous owner was using in a 4 prong 240v receptacle (which is kind of normal for a hobbyist in a newer house using a clothes dryer plug), then the unused wire is the neutral, but that is usually white. The green is ground the black and red are 120v hot.

So sounds fishy to me. What receptacle are you going to use?

The way it is wired based on wire color seems like it was only wired for 120--1 hot, nuetral and ground.

Read owners manual for wiring set up. Should be able to download that if you don't have one from the Miller site.

Nice buy! Congrats -- very nice TIG machine.

I have a dynasty 200DX. They will run on any power you give them, 110 up to 460V, single to 3 phase, any AC voltage.

The pigtail on the machine has 3 hots and a ground, hook up the ground and any of the others you have a place for. I run mine on 220 in the shop and occasionally 110 if that's all there is.

Check out the manual

Grigg

Thanks Grigg and Bill - I did talk with Miller and they carefully walked me through the plug wiring, they were baffled why anyone would use the black for a ground plug connect. Unless that is they opened the machine and changed the internal wiring so they asked me to remove the cover and look. I did, and everything was as it came from the factory so I'm rewiring the plug now and will give it a go as soon as I get finished. Thanks again everybody - I will get back to report on my first weld experience with this baby. --

Dale

First TIG welding experience was excellent, good bead and easy to adjust amperage for the thin stainless I was experimenting with. I was glad not to have lost any of the technique I had gained in the school (it's been a little while). Noticed though I was using what seemed like a lot of Argon (loud hissing). Gauge included is a Smith 30 series flow gauge single, but the adjustment does not appear to work as it has no effect and is allowing 50 plus into the welder, so I'm guessing it is just not working right. Wrote to Smith - have not heard back yet (weekend) so in the meantime looking at replacement Smith flowmeter 30 series which I will order from Cyberweld. Seems the gauge I'm replacing should have been adjustable, just is not. Flowmeter seems to be the better way to go anyway. Any thoughts??

If you are working in a garage you should be able to get away with fairly low flow. Argon is expensive so I would suggest adjustable flow. A loud hissing is pure waste for sure.

For sure - the price of a new gauge is minimal ($105) vs. wasting gas. I'm certain the adjustable flow gauge on the bottle of gas that came with the welder is just not functioning the way it was intended. Everything else seems AOK. I will be working mostly in the garage.
Thanks Brad ---
Dale