The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop At last the start up..36 Suburban

Hi Guys..down to finaly starting motor on my 36 Carryall. there's gas in the new tank, and will put only water in radiator, as someone told me not to put in Anti Freeze until I know there's no leaks as antifrneeze might ruin it's bearings..? True..or False? It's a tight new engine, and new 6 volt has a tough time starting it..is it OK to hook up an 8 volt to it..I won't be turning on the lights. Any other tips for a first start on new engine appriciated...mtvoices.

won't hurt to use straight water at first .... before starting you could pull the plugs and crank it a bit to oil it up well - use a 12V battery to jump it the first time and see if the 6V will do it afterwards - if the 6V won't crank it well you might check your battery cables are heavy enough [not the usual wimpy 12V versions] and insure the ground has a good tight clean connection

Bill

Read up on oil type and proper break-in before going ahead.

Have fire extinguisher handy

wet towel for carb fire,

clean area to work

cooling fans for front of radiator

garden hose for radiator cooling if needed

fully charged battery

timing light

and read up on proper break-in again before starting.

Joe

Thanks JOE..didn't think of those things. WILL DO.. have plugs pulled to turn it over with 6 volt..didn't do it...now plugs are back in, the carb has been rebuilt..and will start hopefully tomorrow., thanks again..bruce d.

Joe..is it OK to start it up with 12 volt, and then after it starts and runs,, switch to the 6 volt? The engine is very tight, new babbiting etc.
Never started a new new engine before..hope it starts ok...( I have some others who have done this to help) Bruce

Bruce, it's fine to jump start it with 12V with the 6V system all properly connected, then pull the jumper cables once started - BUT if 6V won't turn it over with the plugs out, you have problems that need to be found, you should be able to turn it over by hand with the plugs out, just by holding a tension on the fan belt and turning the fan .... battery defective? cables too small? ground connection bad or not directly on engine? starter motor bad or binding?

you need to figure out why it won't crank before thinking about firing it up, if it's 'none of the above' it may be incorrect assembly of the engine, don't just say 'it's tight cuz it's new', a new engine should still turn by hand

Bill

Bill thanks so much for those hints...the fella who rebuilt this 207 engine swears that he turned engine with screw driver on flywheel before i picked it up. Now it is all connected except the throttle pedal,,(still have to connect lin kage there) it turns over without plugs in, well with 12 volts...I now have battery charger to NEW 6 volt..as it was down a little. So we'll SEE soon....having a guy come over tomorrow to help. We will have a little gas in Card...water in radiator..and cross fingers!! If it doesn't start up..may have to call the rebuild guy..
To crank over this engine with the distrib set, plugs out with a handcrank in front takes two musclemen..wow! Could be the new babbit work? or something worse? I'm worried..this rebuild cast me 3200.. Bruce

if it wouldn't turn pretty easy with a crank, plugs out, I'd think something was binding somewhere, specially if the rebuilder could turn it prying on the flywheel, unless he barely turned it with a lot of muscle [I assume he gave some kind of guarantee!!] .... think over the clutch/trans install, any problems fitting things there? crank it with the plugs out and 12V jump before you try to fire it, and wouldn't hurt to put a light squirt of oil in each cylinder before hand

Bill

Don't just turn the motor over to turn it over, all of the bearing surfaces are dry...you need to get it running asap to make oil pressure.

If you feel the need to turn it over, pull the plugs and add one oz of oil to each cylinder. Next pull the distributer and run the oil pump with a long screw driver shaft attached to an electric drill (to get oil pressure), then turn it over. You now have oil feeding the rod bearings.

Good luck getting it running. I had a 1935 207 that I could hand crank to start it, but it had 75K miles on it...

Don't forget to add ZDDP to your oil during break in...

Mike B

I didn't see it menioned but I would have turned the oil pump with a drill to get lots of oil flowing inside. For starting it you could run the coil separately from a battery charger, leave the battery and generator disconnected and just use 12 volts on the starter. That is whati did with my 38.

Thanks for the tips..will add ZDDP..and squirt a little oil (10 w 30?) in the cylinders..we already did the screw driver-drill deal with the disptrib out, and then set it again top dead center..but will do it again if you think that would help..will take out plugs and see what goes. I called the man who did rebuilding..left a message..he has not called back...hummmmm? Yes he did say it was three months guaranteed..but thats almost up now...oooops.

I think the trans went in fine..everyhting wa sright..clutch needs to be connected better I think..will do thos before any startin g to...B. Will add ZDDP to crankcase...and squirt a little oil in the cyls..too.. anything else anyone wants to weigh in with?? We'll try to start it tomorow...B.

....if at all possible have the rebuild guy there for the start up. That way there is no "he say, we say" if something is not right. I certainly hope not,Bruce, but in this day and time it'd be nice if he was there.


...I learned the hard way but it may be a good idea to have the rear wheels off the ground just a little when you start it. Just in case something is "amiss" in the clutch/tranny area. We don't want your truck taking off into a wall.

All eyes, ears and even prayers are with you on this one, Bruce. Its been quite a journey.

To Alvin, Shop Shark and all...we have a go to start it up tomorrow. No oil in cylinders is needed..ZDDP added to the oil, the powerdrill screw driver oil pump will be done for a better oilo pressure to top...all plugs in place and gapped. Noticed a petcok missing under carb on the block..thats being added..as water was leaking out! Always something..huh? So anyone with last prayers and rights..can tell me now beofre ten tomorrow monring. Fresh batt, fire extingusher and wet towels at the ready... It'll do it..I'm hopefull..thanks to all for your tips.....Bruce D.

Thanks for the tips We will start it tomorrow..fresh twelve volt, ZDDP added to oil, fresh water in Radiator, and crossed fingers...and of course gas in the rebuilt carb..anything else?? ha! Bruce

When I put new main bearings in my 216, I shimmed them a little on the snug side. It was fairly tight and I didn't want to wear out the starter. What I did was prime it with a little gas down the carb throat so that it fired right away. I don't know if I would advise that with a new engine. After running it for about half an hour it had loosened up some.

A new engine should be tight, I would be surprised if you could turn it over with the fan and belt. The rear seal is enough to keep it from turning right over. After start up, it should be a lot looser.

Sounds like you have the bases covered. Running on 12 volts is not going to kill the coil or points. In the long term maybe, but not for a 20 minute break in. Have the 6 volt battery all wired in with good quality heavy cables. Jump the 12 volts to it to fire up if needed or just hook the 12 volts right up and forget the 6 volts. If you are worried about the points, change them afterwards. You main concern is getting it started ASAP and keeping the rpm up (1200-1500). The rpm is what oils the cam and lifters. Adjust the timing while the rpm is up, close enough is good enough at this point. The garden hose is to keep it cool, don't be afraid to get it wet. The radiator must stay cool or the engine will overheat which is really really hard on a new one. The cylinders are rough and get hotter then normal along with the crank, rods, and oil. Cooling is second priority after starting.

Use a good quality temp gauge or heat gun (infrared type). Monitor oil pressure and temp all the time.

Good luck, sounds like you are ready!

Joe

Joe,
that engine doesn't have a rear main seal.

FYI, 1940 was the first to use a rear main seal.

Hi joe..well we did everything right..checked all thinfgs, put in points, condenser, poured in gas in the carb..not even a backfire..nothing..tried to pop tho. Could be the distrib needs to be set again..maybe off who knows. And noticed waterpump was leaking a little out the front of that sealed area..will have to see if I need rebuilt one.
Disappointed tho, thought this was the day!
Will try again on Mon. need to get that pressure up to rpms! Thanks for any help..and all comments..Bruce

HI RED..well we did all things as you guys said..and have a great old school guy here this morn to put in points, condenser, and tightened everything pour gas inot carb...it did try to pop thats was it..12 volt was pooped out....perhaps I need as new COIL..as I tried to use the old one as it is made to fir the top of the ignition cable...maybe a new one? But then I have to somehow hook up my cable to that new coil..wanted to use it tho as part of the orig engine equiptment...maybe thats the prob, Bruce

YES we did turn the distrib with drill and screwdriver part..will do it again this coming Mon..as we did not get it going..it tried but only one pop...even with gas down the throat of carb..not even a backfire.
Tight engine alright..but we have not given up..might need something we haven't thought of...rebuild guy ssid he did everything correct..but what else is he going to say.. Did I mention I put in 10 w 40 oil in it with some ZINK? It that ok break in oil..I was told it was fine to use. Any other comments are welcome..we have high hopes for Mon. May have to send for a new coil tho,, using the old one. Bruce

I feel bad that I mentioned about priming mine because I am not sure that I would do that to a new engine. Anyways I hope it all works out for you soon.

Before you try to start the engine again, hook the ignition system up and check for spark. Make sure the timing is right.

Hook a 6v battery to the coil only. Put your 12v battery to the starter only. Your starter could be pulling the voltage down starving the coil, by having two batteries you eliminate that problem.

Pouring raw gas down the carb is not good for the cylinder walls and rings as it washes the oil away. With all of the cranking you've done you should have gas from the tank to the carb by now. Is the sediment bowl full of gas?

You can tighten the packing nut on the water pump to slow or stop the leak.

Mike B

Bruce, you are almost there! Once you have the water fixed and engine primed again (valve cover off), rotate the engine by hand till you have number one piston at the top. Watch the two front valves and down the spark plug hole to verify the piston location. Both valves will be closed. The timing marks should also be aligned.

At this point, you can advance the engine to the correct running timing marks, there should be TDC and a running mark isn't there?

Drop the distributor in and snug it but not so tight you can't turn it.

Ground the number 1 plug to the block and hook up the wire. With key on, twist the distributor back and forth to get a spark. It takes a bit to narrow in on it, but it can be done. This is as close as you can get with it apart.

Joe

Thanks everyone for the tips on first starting..it fired up today on the second try..had the 12 volts connected and everything timed and gapped, only ran for fifteen or twenty sec...as we haven't hooked up the new gasloine..the orig had sprung a leak...drip drip..no good. But at leat heard the motor start...made my day..ha! bruce d.

Congratulations.

oh yeeeaaaaahhh, awesome

I suppose the last thing I have to do is change or add to the back axle center pumpkin's oil...what weight and how much...as I have not done this...I guess my manual probably tells this info..any comments? We're putting on new gasline as old one was leaking. Hey, it was only 78 years old! Bruce

I have not checked Bruce but I'd think 90 gear lube. Since its cold where you live you may want to try something a little "lighter". Just my opinion.

Linkage is the next hurdle..hard to see it and work there...may have to take carb off..uuug! But no gas pedal and it sits there...so far all is goo dwith the wooden beams and top..ready to install the black topping..almst to the finish..thanks for all your help and comments...MtVoices.