The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Frame filler? weld it or???

As a few others at this time, I'm working on the frame and none stop rust removal.... also grinding out the rivets on each and every bracket...

I plan on filling 90% of the factory holes in the frame and smoothing it out...

Question?

What product works well for filling in the little grinder marks and dings here and there?

Also,
Looking at some of the cross members on the 46', I'm thinking about removing and treating the rust under and inside of the mating surface....
I fear that I wont be able to keep the frame square... even doing it one at a time? Ideas?

thanks,
-Jerry

The only really effective way of doing a project like that is to fabricate a rigid jig that bolts to a solid concrtete floor, and clamp the frame securely to it before you start removing parts. That's how we set up dirt tracker frames whenever we would get a new one- - - -use the new frame as a pattern for the jig, then check for twist or warp by setting a used or damaged frame back onto the jig after a crash or a modification.

How do you plan to fill the holes you don't want? I've seen people clamp a thick piece of copper behind a hole, then fill it with a MIG welder, but that's a long, tedious process if you've got a bunch of holes to fill. You'll never get a crossmember or a bracket reinstalled with bolts as securely as the riveted item was, since the riveting process also swells the fastener to fill the hole better than a bolt ever can do. The only way that comes close is to precision-ream each hole, and use shouldered bolts that press-fit themselves into the holes. That type of bolt costs several dollars each.
Jerry

I was thinking of welding the cross members back into place one at a time.... That also opens up for more contamination of the weld area, but much less.... As far as filling the little unneeded holes here and there, I have steel dowels to plug and weld. I'm going to Tig the entire project.

I'm weighing the pros and cons of the rivets....

Stovebolt frames were designed to flex a little. Welding crossmembers in will create stress risers and cracks in a very short time, as well as causing changes in thre metallurgy of the frame in the area of the welds. I'd leave well enough alone, and do as good a cleanup as possible without removing the crossmembers. I think you're about to open up a very costly can of worms.
Jerry

what are your plans for this truck [46?], is it gonna be a trailer queen, a summer cruiser, a dragster, work truck, a daily driver? as HRL points out, you'll be ruining the frame that lasted 50 some years the way GM put it together if you want to actually use the truck

Bill

There in lies the problem... I'm set on a 350+ HP motor (383 stroker) Mainly for the once a month cruze and what nots.....

However, I want to use what I have... It's in great shape and minimal rust considering...
As for cost I don't mind redoing the frame if needed. Boxing and supports are in the works for sure. I just don't want this thing to crumble outside of what I thought would be correct... I'm actually more fond of this steel because of it's age! As the good saying goes..." They don't make things like they use to" but I see the combination of todays steel posing a problem....
I do see your point about flexing and such. I'll have to ponder on that and come up with a solution....

-jerry

Have you ever gotten a look under the skin of a round track car? It looks like a frustrated bridge builder's nightmare, with all the roll cage bars and gusset plates. Dirt trackers are even more gussied-up than asphalt cars, due to the surfaces they run on, and the driving style they're subjected to. Even those things flex, to the point that I've seen the left front wheel come several inches off the ground due to engine torque when a driver nails the throttle. Of course, it's not uncommon for a good dirt track engine to produce 700+ HP. Restrictor plates are for sissies- - - -Build it to run and let the NASCAR wimps hide under the grandstands!

All the concern about making a frame rigid is misplaced effort. Sure, add some gussets around critical stress points like motor mounts, but trying to keep a frame from flexing is a lost cause. We had a saying in the race car shop- - - - - -"Build it three times as strong as it needs to be, and don't be too surprised when it breaks!" After a long time trying to build rigid frames, I finally figured out they only need to be strong enough to have good weight transfer for suspension jacking adjustments. Making one super-rigid means it's going to break.
Jerry

I agree 100%... It's not going to be a 1/4 car by any stretch. But I want some respectable HP and for the most part I think I'm over thinking this thing way too much... I have some ideas that should be fine for what I want to do. Just need to dust off the tubing bender!!!

-Jerry

Add as much HP as you want, the stock frame will handle it as it with street tires. Full out race truck will require some modifications, but not a street driven one.

What is the goal for removing the cross members? Just to remove a little rust behind them? For looks?

Have you tried getting a rivets out? It's a lot harder then you think.

Reaming out to the hole to the next size bolt with shoulder is the only way to bolt in a cross members, if there is any movement between bolt and hole, they will work loose. Hot rivets is the correct method. As far as welding them in, I believe you are weakening ( stressing ) the whole set up far more then you strengthening it.

There is a good reason the cabs are attached using spring mounted bolts and rubber pads, frame flex, its designed into them for a reason.
Good luck,
Joe

The stock cross members are staying, or at least the primary ones. I'll build the transmission mount with poly bushings. I'm also not going to box the fame completely.

It's going to be at least 2 months before I start the fab work. my day job is 4 weeks at a time on the other side of the country... so progress will be boring and slow....

Thanks for the input!

About fillers?

Before I do the final frame coat can I use just body filler on the little nooks and pitting just to smooth things out for looks?

You should see the video on how these frames were put together in the plant, back in the day. It's riveting!

I'd suggest maybe at least boxing the frame, at least back to the firewall. That would eliminate some of the torque twist. I have around 340 HP in my '40 - frame handles it OK, but does move when you stomp it.

POR 15 putty works to fill holes.

also, Jerry, there is no load like an overload, is there?

any more progress on this? im starting the same project, putting a 383 in my 39. what did you do for the steering colum? What front suspension did you use?

i have done alot of this topic on my 51 if you want to see pics and my progress up to now you can see them in the dity forum under mo's 1951 chevrolet 3100 resto mod project. i will be replacing the center crossmember in the next few months with a one off piece. i plan on bolting it in place along with welding it. most guys on the stovebolt will argue about this subject till they die but i think a little beefing up of the frame is in order considering the original horse power of the 216. theres a reason the pros box and put x member into their frames. later MO

No real visual progress as of yet...

I work out of state 4 weeks at a time so it sits....

Currently building a bombproof corp 14 bolt for the rear. it's getting cut down and all new innards and junk. Then I can mock-up the rear links and shocks.

I'm also working on boxing it now and filling all the unused holes everywhere.

I will likely get progressives x-member kit to save time and to finish up the frame quicker plus sourcing a few other parts.
Brake system
Tranny---likely a built TH350
dummy block for mock up while the 383 gets built. or parts gathered... I want to build it, but time comes into play again...


As for the front, I went with the a TCI kit.