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| | | | Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 268 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 268 | Hello All,
I have been informed that I should not be using a multi-viscousity detergent oil in my GMC engines, I have several 228(2), 248(2), 270 & 302.
I should be using single grade non-detergent oil.
Yah or Nay Gang???
Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening,
Love like you've never been hurt.
1948 GMC FC101 1/2t Pickup w/270 and SM420
1948 GMC FC253 1t Factory 80"x9' Flatbed Dually
1948 Chevy COE 2 Ton 8'x15' Flatbed
1950 GMC 354-24 2 Ton 8'X12' Flatbed w/Dump Hoist
1953 GMC 454-30 3 Ton 8'x14' Flatbed w/Dump Hoist
1953 GMC 454-30 3 Ton Cab and Chassis
1942 Clarkator 6 MILL-44 Heavy Aircraft Tug
1942 Ford (9N) Moto Tug with 1/2 yard Loader
1947 Oliver OC3 HG-42 Tract-Crawler Bull Dozier w/6' Blade
| | | | | Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 14,522 Moderator: Welcome Centre, Southern Bolters, Legion Hall | | Moderator: Welcome Centre, Southern Bolters, Legion Hall Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 14,522 | What is the general condition and how many miles?...are they rebuilt?
If original I'd suggest staying with the non-detergent or a 30wt. detergent......this is of coarse my opinion. | | | | | Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 835 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 835 | If you have been using multi-grade detergent oil, I would for sure continue using it.
If The engine has always been run with non-detergent oil, I would remove all the covers and pan, clean out the gunk and switch to detergent oil. It's just so much better oil.
Kurt | | | | | Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,819 Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) | | Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,819 | Depending on how much wear the engines have, multi-viscosity oil might not be the best choice. I wonder if the folks who don't like detergent oils still wash their clothes by beating them on rocks down at the creek? I'd prefer a straight-weight detergent oil, but I'm old and opinionated.
Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
| | | | | Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 523 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 523 | My only experiance involves a borrowed econ-line van. By brothe-in-law had been talked into "cleaning the sludge" out of the engine. Later, about 1000 miles from home, a bit of sludge broke loose, clogged an oil passage, and seized a valve. Big mess. I never use detergent unless it has been used continuosly from when the engine was new.
BobS46
| | | | | Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,571 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,571 | My only experiance involves a borrowed econ-line van. By brothe-in-law had been talked into "cleaning the sludge" out of the engine. Later, about 1000 miles from home, a bit of sludge broke loose, clogged an oil passage, and seized a valve. Big mess. I never use detergent unless it has been used continuosly from when the engine was new. For situations like that, I'd get something like Berryman B12 Chem-Tool and follow the directions on the can. Basically dump it in, run the engine for a few minutes, then change the oil. Should clean a lot of that crap out, then it should be safe for detergent oil to keep it clean. | | | | | Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 268 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 268 | Ok... my 228s and (1)248 and the 302 are unmolested engines (never rebuilt) the 270 is completely rebuilt, I use 30w detergent in it in winter and 40w detergent in summer for the 270.
The other 248 has been over-hauled, but never started...yet. It has 30w Detergent oil in it. All engines have external oil filters.
Thanx all for the comments and suggestions.
Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening,
Love like you've never been hurt.
1948 GMC FC101 1/2t Pickup w/270 and SM420
1948 GMC FC253 1t Factory 80"x9' Flatbed Dually
1948 Chevy COE 2 Ton 8'x15' Flatbed
1950 GMC 354-24 2 Ton 8'X12' Flatbed w/Dump Hoist
1953 GMC 454-30 3 Ton 8'x14' Flatbed w/Dump Hoist
1953 GMC 454-30 3 Ton Cab and Chassis
1942 Clarkator 6 MILL-44 Heavy Aircraft Tug
1942 Ford (9N) Moto Tug with 1/2 yard Loader
1947 Oliver OC3 HG-42 Tract-Crawler Bull Dozier w/6' Blade
| | | | | Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,780 Master Gabster | | Master Gabster Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,780 | Ok... . All engines have external oil filters. What I learned in auto shop years ago was that if you have an engine without an oil filter , use the non-detergent oil. If you have an oil filter use the detergent oil. The non-detergent oil will collect debris and it will settle in the bottom of the pan, while detergent oil will foam/suspend particles and circulate through the oil filter and trap it there. | | | | | Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,232 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,232 | GMONIZ - Your shop teacher threw me another curve in this ND vs Detergent Oil conundrum. I was all set to switch to Rotella 30w from the Shell 30w Non-Detergent that I have been using in my stock '54 235. But my engine doesn't have an oil filter. I had decided on Rotella after I posted a similar question recently, searched a mountain of Stovebolt posts on the subject, and had some PM discussions with another forum member. Seems like a simple question with a infinite number of opinions. FWIW, I can only find Shell Non-Detergent oil. The bottle says: "Non-detergent SAE 30 Motor Oil is for use in equipment requiring an oil without current or traditional additives except to control oxidation. Some applications include compressors, antique cars and trucks, and pressure washers. Applications should specifically designate the use of a non-detergent oil ..."
"Caution: Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automotive engines built after 1951. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm. API SB is an obsolete service category."I recently started substituting a quart of Rislone Engine Oil Supplement with Zinc Treatment to add the ZDDP missing from the ND oil.
- Lonnie My '54 3104Photos that I have shared on Stovebolt via PhotoBucket are no longer available. Please contact me if you want a photo from an old post. lonniecook [at] aol [dot] com. I sold my '54 3104 12/12/2017, but I still visit Stovebolt. OLD STUFF ... houses, furniture, cars, wine ... I love it all | | | | | Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,819 Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) | | Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,819 | Lots of misinformation is getting preached as gospel in this thread. Detergents in motor oil trap and hold particles of dirt too small to be filtered out, and they drain out with the oil at every change. I can't imagine a situation where non-detergent oil would be preferred, unless the oil is getting burned with the fuel like in a 2-cycle engine. Detergents and other additives tend to foul spark plugs on an oil-burner, so if your engine needs a ring job it might be wise to go with ND oil. Otherwise, use something with detergents in the formula.
Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
| | | | | Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 835 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 835 | I fully agree with Jerry. There is no reason to use non-detergent oil in a stovebolt engine. It's just not a very good automotive engine oil. There is a reason engines used to require a rebuild every 50,000 miles or so: the oil did not carry the gunk out when you changed it, so the engines got plugged up and the new oil was quickly contaminated.
Run the best oil you can afford no matter what the service history of the engine. But if you are switching from non-detergent to detergent, DO take off all the covers and clean everything up including the oil pickup screen. This way you can pro-actively replace all the gaskets that will start leaking as the detergent oil starts to clean the gunk out that has been sealing up the covers.
And Jerry is right on about the size of particles held in suspension by detergent oil. They don't get filtered out. When you see that your oil is black after running a bit, this does not mean the oil is shot, it means the oil is doing its job, picking up fine particles. The oil is designed to continue to lubricate while doing this.
Kurt
| | | | | Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,232 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,232 | Jerry (Hotrod Lincoln) was kind enough to have a PM discussion with me a few weeks ago regarding oil types. After our PMs, I chose Rotilla 30w for my next oil change after running ND oil since I have owned my truck.
Thanks for the extra info guys. I'm back on board with Jerry. It'll be Rotilla from now on. Gotta learn to make a decision and stick with it.
- Lonnie My '54 3104Photos that I have shared on Stovebolt via PhotoBucket are no longer available. Please contact me if you want a photo from an old post. lonniecook [at] aol [dot] com. I sold my '54 3104 12/12/2017, but I still visit Stovebolt. OLD STUFF ... houses, furniture, cars, wine ... I love it all | | | | | Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 121 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 121 | I agree with using the high detergent oil but I would not use a straight 30 weight. In those old engines I would use the same oil except it would be 15-40.
I use that in everything except my Dodge Neon and my newer Camaro with the v8. I use 5W 20 in the Neon and 5W 30 in the Camaro. The Camaro will get 5W 20 after it is out of warranty. The newer engines could be damaged by using a heavy weight oil, or if not, they will certainly consume more fuel.
Use the lightest weight oil you can afford.
Last edited by Crabbyappleton; 05/01/2012 8:37 PM.
| | | | | Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 835 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 835 | I have been running 10w-30 Lubrication Engineers oil in my 235 for about 40 years. and 25 years since I last rebuilt it.
No complaints.
Kurt | | | | | Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,780 Master Gabster | | Master Gabster Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,780 | Found this on the smokstak site, Don't know the accuracy of the information though. I did not mean to give misinformation, just repeating what I learned years ago. I did make a mistake about saying that the detergent suspended the particles and were caught in the filter, I have since read that they trap the particles in the oil and that it is then removed in an oil change as hot rod said.: #9
12-13-2002, 09:52 PM
Mike Royster
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Detergent Oil Vs. Non-detergent
OK all, here we go again! I sell oil for a living and go to the schools and really in fact it is like this. If they would have had detergent oil in the old days, they would have used it! Now that is is here, there is no reason to go backwards to non detergent. Use any name- brand oil and you truly have 7500 mile protection. If you choose to change it more often, that can only be a good thing. As far as stationary engines go, I have used 5/30, 10/30, 10/40, 15/40, 30, and 40 weight oils. All detergent and really the consumption rate is the same because I set the drip levels. If you prefer one brand over the other, that is fine. But truthfully, any major brand that meets API/SAE codes would be fine, especially in our low tech engines. But to think that John Deere oil or CAT oil is superior is a joke on you. All they do is farm out the process to the majors to meet their specs, which are the same or less than SAE/API. So, the moral to the story is use what you like, set the drip rate accordingly. If you have a crankcase engine, change oil based on hours or severe load conditions, not because the oil is black or not. If you use a detergent oil, it will be black in color faster because it holds the trash in supension as it is supposed to. This is a good thing, and even in systems without filters like our old machinery, this is still OK. In my OPINION, on systems without crankcases, any oil will do, it is the drip rate that is more important that the viscosity or additive package. Having fun here, ya'll do the same! | | | | | Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 41 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 41 | | | | | | Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 7,440 Bolter | | Bolter Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 7,440 | tigman1, this thread is over 5 years old and the author has not been here in 3 years. I don't believe you will get a response from him.ðŸ›
Martin
'62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress)
'47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project)
‘65 Chevy Biscayne (Emily)
‘39 Dodge Business Coupe (Clarence)
“I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one!
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USAF 1965-1969 Weather Observation Tech (I got paid to look at the clouds)
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