The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Plagued by the Wet Ones

Now come on, be honest, if you drive your 216 on a regular basis, I mean like 100 plus
miles a week, you gotta admit, you got wet gaskets behind the tin right??? If not and
you’ve got dry gaskets then your either out of oil or,,,,,,you know some deep dark secret
unknown to most of us guys, us guys being the vast majority of us still running a 216. So
if you’re not one of the Wet Ones, share your secret with us will ya huh, please!!!!
My tin covers have been meticulously straighten to the point of checking them on a
granite surface plate, the mating surfaces are meticulously clean, torque on the screws and
nuts are within specs, not to loose and not so tight as to warp the covers.
My cork Rocker Cover is constantly wet and the ‘Best’ brand thick fiber side cover gasket
seems to always be weeping from one wipe down to another. If I go out for a 100mile run
there is always oil that runs down the back of the block and bell housing, behind the tin
flywheel inspection covers on the bottom and blows back onto the cross member and
transmission. I can wipe her all down and take her out for some exercise and when I come
back, same thing, oil film around the top and side cover gaskets.
No, it’s not the rear seal, it’s dry as a bone up in there and it’s not the pan, it’s dry as a
bone down there also.
I thought it might be oil leaking past the star washers on the side cover but have resealed
the screws and screw holes with Permatex #2 and the rocker cover is down tight all
around and seated right under the lips and ends of the tin.
Those of you that have read some of my short stories know that I’m not one that expects a
totally dry Stovebolt. Fact is, I’ve been driving cars and trucks with these Stovebolts in
them since the late 50’s and a few drop once in awhile is to be expected.
It’s almost like they are doing something different with the gaskets and they just won’t
hold the earl back now days.
Back in the day we didn’t have silicone sealers (which I absolutely refuse to use on these
engines) just a little Permatex used sparingly seemed to guarantee a good seal and
relatively dry engine.
DG

Years ago they used to have something called gasket shellac. I remember that you could coat a new cork rocker cover gasket with it, let it dry and it would seal the cork. That procedure would produce a dry seal for quite a while.

Oh boy Denny! I drive my 216 a ton, and its a seeper. You could just buy some zinser shellac. But, uh, I like the drips. It makes it easy to wipe 'er down, and keeps the condensation from rusting stuff. Plus, the truck hardly leaks at all compared to the Model T, that thing is like a paving machine! With it, you also pour oil on the floor to check the level.

I used to have real trouble getting my rocker cover to seal, and ended up cutting a gasket out of 1/4" thick rubberized cork. The tappet cover, I made out of 1/16" material.

It seeps though, lord how it seeps. Wiping down is no big deal, as there's always oil vapour around the vents on the valve cover anyway.

I wasn't aware you could get a totally dry 216. Kinda like asking for the old air cooled VW not to drip oil from somewhere.

I used the shellac like truckernix is talking about.. Bought it from O'Riellys. I think it was around 3 or 4 bucks.. its in a small brown bottle.. And boy is it some sticky stuff.. I think its gonna work well.. Did all the cork gaskets and had some left over..

I still use gasket shellac. Indian Head. Good stuff. Never thought about coating all sides of the cork, but sounds like a good idea.

I think the cause of a lot of the leaks now as opposed to years ago is that the oil is so much better. No more gum or tar or other crud to seal the gaskets from the inside.

Kurt

Kurt

Old Chevy sixes are like old Harleys, if they aren't leaking oil they don't have oil in them.

If that’s Indian Head Gasket shellac you’re thinking of Tim, I’ve still got a bottle on the shelf, haven’t used it in years but I might give it a try on a new gasket. When I was a kid in the 50’s Indian Head was as popular with the old time mechanics as Permatex was. My dad used it a lot and he was an old school mechanic from the 20’s and 30’s.

Yeah, that’s what I’m finding a lot of Chris. After I take her out and run her hard I seem to have an oil mist left on the engine. Keeps that Filling Station Dark Gray engine paint looking nice and shiny.

Read it again Roy, as I said, I don’t expect it to be totally dry. But I’m getting a bit more than I should be and can’t seem to pin it down to any one source. There shouldn’t be more than a few drops and I’m getting enough that it’s dripping out the drain hole in the flywheel cover and blowing back on the X-member and trans.

There might just be some truth to that Kurt, my 216 is a fresh rebuild with only 600 miles on her. Lots of nice clean slick places for the earl to leak out of.

Well Richard, if after a fresh rebuild, I can’t keep this one from leaking more than an old Harley, I’d better go back and review my auto mechanics 101 books.

I believe what’s going on here is something called minimalism. I’m edging more and more toward keeping the sealants down to an absolute minimum over the years. I suppose it might have something to do with not having to open the hood for 100, 000 miles on the newer cars we drive. And even then they taint leaking nor do they need their plugs serviced. The only guy that has seen the underside of my wife’s Sebring is the guy that changes the oil every 10k. For the last several decades the engines have been sealed up so tight that I haven’t had the need to glue one back together. So it looks like I’m gonna have to break down and try to reverse my minimalist way of thinking and get out the tubes of Permatex and start gluing her together if I want to minimize the drip.

Which brings up another thing that might account for my shying away from sealants lately. Just where exactly did the GM factory use sealants when they assembled the Stovebolts back in the day????? I wonder if there are any virgin engines out there that have never been apart in their 50 or 60 year span. It would really be interesting to do an autopsy on one and document what was glued to what and what was just assembled dry.
Denny G

Denny, I'll try to improve my reading skills. They aren;t the best in the world. LOL

The old Indian Head shellac was/is pretty good. I have also had good results with Permatex Aviation sealant. I use it on the air cooled engines for VW's and it seems to hold pretty well.

If the rope seal is leaking, some machine shops no machine the seal area so that a one piece rubber seal can be used.

I would like to see these old engines get the gasket technology the newer engines have. Like you said, they seldom have any oil leaks even after 100,000 miles.

The road draft tube pukes out hot oil mist too. I get oil mist on the front of the coil too, and the only place I can imagine it coming from is the road draft tube, swirling back up onto the engine at those high speeds I go. In fact, after a thousand miles, when its time to grease the truck, the whole engine bay is ready for a wipe down.

After taking the pans off of a few engines, I've stopped using modern gasket goo completely. Perhaps I've only bought engines worked on by the "more = better" school of mechanics. There always seems to be globs of the stuff laying in the pan, and stuck in the pump pick-up screen. I live in fear that I'll inadvertently plug an oil gallery. Plus I don't like the look of the squeeze-out.

Denny,
I know you won't use the silicone sealant,but I always use a little and spread it over the top,bottom and inside and outside with a finger. Let it dry overnight, then assemble whatever it is,really has cut down on leaks.

Just wondering are the 1955 235's just as prone to be seepers? I have one in a 52 Deluxe Sport Coupe that doesn't mind dripping on my floor.

I like the Indian Head. Bought a bottle last month for some stuff I'm working on.
Even back "in the days", Denny, we used some shellac on the old gaskets. It may not have been "factory" but even then mechanics around here would shellac them down.
....did you retighten them after the gaskets got hot and compressed some? I use to do that on the bottom pan,valve covers and other places on my newer, say 1975, stuff and kept drips to a minimum.

Like you say, todays engines are tight. Just turned 232,000 on my 2000 Silverado V8 and it still does not drip a drop!

As mentioned earlier, my rear main is dry as an old bone in the desert sun, that is, as of
right now. Machining the rear of the block for a single lip seal would fall under major
service operation. That taint an easy fix.
One of the prime reasons the rope seals leaked was that the fabric was only impregnated
with a graphite compound and it wasn’t resilient. Once hammered in place by the crank
the diameter was pretty much set. Any clearance in the bearing meant there was a gap in
the seal. As soon as a few thousands of an inch of wear developed at the rear bearing this
gap at the seal will drip oil. Of course the physical design behind a lip seal backed up by a
tension spring would compensate for any main bearing clearance.
But, there is a rope seal being sold now, I believe it’s made by best, that I think is
impregnated with rubber and is somewhat resilient and it seems to keep that gap closed
up even when the rear main starts getting loose. My old buddy Pete was just talking about
ordering one the other day for a 216 that he’s rebuilding.

Nope Tommy, won’t go as far as using those red or blue sillycones on my engine, but, I
will be going back to gluing every thing that gets stuck back on with the old standard for
a hundred years now, i.e., Permatex.

I haven't run a 235 in a vehicle for about 45 years. Last one I had was in my 60 Chevy
Biscayne and that was not a dripper. The shorter side cover has to help with that source
and eliminating the slots in the Rocker Cover no doubt got rid of another one plus the
four screws over the two central nut was another improvement which carried on into the
present day V8s.

Yeah, I’ve used all of it in the past Alvin, but like I posted, I’ve been into this minimalist
mind set the last few years and now it’s catching up with me. Gonna have to go back to
my old way of thinking. Funny how we get into a certain mind set and then take it to the
extreme. I do that a lot lately, part of my being so picky about the little details. I’m so
dang hung up on doing everything just like they did it at the factory that I often forget
about the practical side of things.
And oh yeah checked all the screws, nuts and bolts numerous times. When we see one of
these Stovebolts that has been in service for half a century, that’s the reason why all the
tin is warped all over the place. They leak like a sieve so the screw keep getting buried
deeper and deeper into the hole till the sealing surface ends up looking like the edge of a
potato chip.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Too bad they didn't make a better way to distribute the clamping force of the bolts on those side covers. Making the covers a little thicker would have helped.

I was just reading a post over at the VCCA site. It was found that the fuel pump was causing a considerable oil mess, leaking around the hole in the casting for the pin that goes through housing for pump arm.

Mine is recently rebuilt and always wet. Only leaves a few drips here and there but even with a good coat of Indian Head on all the seals there's a sheen on just about everything.

folks should remember the general way of things in the era these engines were designed, dust control on dirt roads was achieved by spraying petro products on them [some places it was used motor oil!!], oil was sent back from whence it came .... for machinery, being oily outside as well as inside was considered a good preservation technique, who would worry about the many places the oil from inside might get out? every stovebolt marks it's territory regardless of how fussy we've gotten to be about spots on our floors and driveways

Bill

Very true Bill, my '50, 216 was kept in a fire barn and was exercised on a regular basis. She was covered with grease soaked red clay in almost every orfis and there is very, very little rust to be found, in other words, all that seapage really did help preserve her. And I remember the oiled down roads well, they were still doing that on the gravel roads in front of the farm houses out here up till a few years ago.

I checked out the fuel pump early on Don, I thought the gasket though it might be a source for some leakage but it's not.

Denny G

Denny,
I had a hard time with the valve cover. After more than a couple of tries, I permatexed 2 gaskets together and then put permatex on the head and installed the gasket on the head. I did NOT glue the cover down, so I could adjust the valves. The head must be super clean before applying the permatex. I had to work on the proper torque on the acorn nuts, but it does not leak. I do get some from the road draft tube,but only under the engine. My rear bearing is dry, but there is a few drops from the hole at the bottom cover. With the flywheel spinning, it could cause a little suction and pull a little from the road draft mist. I have about 1200 miles since the overhaul.
Hope this helps.
Mark