The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop What is Good Enough for a Filler Job

Howdy fellers,
My front fenders are a wreck and have had about half a gallon of filler put on em over nearly 10 coats. After sanding for days, I can still feel slight contour changes running my hand over everything. Will these show up in the paint under the right light? Am I being too picky? Does anyone have any example pics they can share?

Much thanks

Yup!

Get a rag wet with mineral spirits and wipe it down. It should make it shiny enough that you can see what the finish will end up looking like. Why so much bondo?

How long of a board and what grits are you using to cut with? Also how much of that gallon have you sanded back off? Is there bare metal exposed where you know your good?

Even contour changes you can't feel will show up under almost any light with new paint. Using a long board and a guide coat was the only way mine ever came out straight. It took re-doing poor quality results several times before I finally accepted this. Only you can decide how picky you want to be. What you already have might be acceptable to many people.

Chuck

My fenders should have been scrapped, but I didn't know any better. I spent way too much time hammering on them and should have just searched for a better pair or paid for the toe and heel patch panels. Some spots are so work hardened that the more I beat them, the worse the surrounding areas got so I hammered them until I was ready to move on (~40 hours each). This is my first real experience with metal bumping, but I'm doing everything by the book (Key to Metal Bumping) and on other dents the only thing I think needs work is my finishing (getting it to where you don't need filler), but whose doesn't besides the metal working gurus.

I use my 18" block and a regular sanding block with 36 grit to get the shape, then 80, then 220. I'll post some pics to give you an idea, but basically they were just a mess around the toe and heel, and needed big sweeps to smooth out. My hood is primed and it looks great, but I couldn't feel anything before I put the epoxy down, so I wondered if I'm doing to much.

Sorry, here's some pics.

If pics 73 - 75 are filler before blocking shots and you've cut/sanded them down to 220 I say it looks like your ready for 3 coats of epoxy and start blocking to me but I am by no stretch of the imagination someone to listen to as knowledgeable on the subject.

You're learning an important lesson in hammer/dolly work. On-dolly hammering can cause lots of issues because every time you strike you stretch the metal. I'm wagering your problem isn't so much work hardened metal as much as stretched metal if it's causing issues with the surrounding areas. In the ideal world you don't want more than 3/8" (1/4" is better) thick body plastic in a repair. Having said that I've seen, and on occasion used, more when necessary. The absolute best way to get a "read" on a panel is to put on a pair of light weight cotton gloves and run your hand lengthwise over the repair, starting in a straight, unrepaired area then onto the repair. Keep your hand flat. You can substitute a clean rag for the glove if necessary. Never use just your finger tips, the end of your thumb or move your hand sideways, always lengthwise (the direction your fingers are pointing is lengthwise). The first time you do this you'll see why. It's like seeing for the first time. High and low spots will jump out like a slap in the face. Starting the "feel" on a straight, unrepaired area lets your mind "see" what the contour is supposed to be so when you get on the repair the bumps & dips will really stand out. It also helps you "see" the difference between a low spot and what only feels like a low spot because it's next to a high spot.

No, I don't hit on the dolly unless on accident or when the panel is ready for finishing, and I have several pair of cotton gloves (those are great help, too). I don't feel real confident in my aim, though, and I didn't exactly master bumping out complex, large wave damages, which were plenty on these fenders. I'm telling you, several spots looked like one of the past owners tried getting the shape back with a pick ax. Main reason for my poor results, I think, is tools, and then not having the experience enough to make a replace vs. repair call.

My feel for the high/low spots seems to be pretty good, so the main thing I wanted to know is how much shows up in the final paint; if I'm being too picky with the filler? Sounds like even what you can't feel shows up, right?

Oh, and just 72 shows the initial pre-sanded filler application. The other pics show where I am now, which is ~10th coat on the toe/heal on that one panel.

Look at any car with shiny paint. You can see every change in contour. If you can feel it you'll see it. If you get good at reading the panel you'll feel any imperfection. If you don't want to see waves in the panel and you're not confident in having them all straight you might want to consider a mat finish for the top coat?? A mat finish, especially a light colored mat finish will hide a world of sins.

Every thing will show up in the final finish. Every wave, dip, nick and scratch in the
primer, every edge that is not fully feathered, every blemish will show thru.
A paint job is 98% preparation and laying on the paint is just the topping on the cake.
You can spend many long days prepping a panel and it will take longer to clean the gun
up than it does to lay down the final finish. But......If that taint done correctly you will be
back to sanding again.
I spent a total of about a couple of weeks on the front clip of my '50 and rather than screw
up all that work. I paid a guy that paints for a living, who had the proper equipment and
setting to lay down the top coat. Took him a total of about 1 1/2 hours to lay down the
acrylic enamel and that was with his handling and clean up. It cost me $125 bucks to have
this done and I didn’t know the guy.
In the final stages of your sanding you should be wet sanding the surfacer. Putting
some good light on it while it's wet will show you where the blemishes are. Unless you’re
shooting for a trophy winner show truck you just may have to live with waves, dips and
what not. If you’re just building a driver then you can settle for less than perfection, as I
did here:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/139199169/large

DG

Man, Denny, I'm sure to spectators and wives, the partially finished truck looks silly, but to a bolter that looks great! I don't see any imperfections or waves in the finished metal.

How about high build and pinholes; will they be filled by the high build or should I put a glaze coat of body filler on?

Here's a how-to on shrinking that may help out....with a sequel on page 2

http://www.trifive.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65849

Looks to me like you are trying to patch the filler in just the low spots. That is a sure fire way of never getting a straight panel.
Your filler should extend into good straight metal.
Instead of applying a dab of filler here and there, coat the entire section or even the entire fender then block sand.

You're right, Sevt, I figured that one out just the other day. I'm trying to border up to bare metal or high filler.

Tiny caught me, too. I didn't wear cotton gloves so much since I started with the filler because I thought the dust would make it just as smooth and easy to feel bumps as the gloves, but I just checked again with gloves and got depressed...much more than I thought.

Any advice on the pinholes? Will high build primer fill them in?

Thought I posted his last night but I must have forgot to hit the submit button. The primer is not going to hid pin holes or deep scratches, that's what your glazing putty is for.
DG

Good lord, Robert. You are definitely one of the metal gurus I mentioned before.

I'll see if I can apply that to any of my damages.

Much thanks for the tip.

I would not recommend using mineral spirits on your body work. Mineral spirits has a paraffin(petroleum)base. All of your body panels should be wiped down with an automotive wax and grease remover. You can buy it from your local automotive paint store.
For the most part, your fenders look pretty good,as you mention it is just the heel and toe that seem to have a lot of stretch in the metal. You seem to be doing a great job with the body filler. The only problem is the thick body filler on the front of the fenders will be highly susceptible to rock damage. It's not too late to weld in those heel/toe patch panels.
Keep up the good work and keep us posted.

Use a guide-coat. Once that's all coming off at the same time, they are ready!

Here's my rule of thumb: If you have spots that don't get touched at all when sanding with a long board, THAT's where you need a little more filler. If the board kinda-sorta touches most spots, then go on to Epoxy and your high build primer.