The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Coolant issue on 235 blue flame

I recently installed a blue flame 235 in my 1953 chevy 3100 truck. Prior it had a 216 that was seized. The swap went very good, no issues to speak of. The truck sat all winter long in my garage as I didn't work on putting everything back together until warmer weather. Well, recently I have finished putting everything back in place, rebuilt the carb, etc... Here is my issue now. As I was putting in coolant after I got to 2 gallons poured into the radiator, it never appeared to come up at all, and then I noticed that (coolant was gurgling out of the hole when the temperature probe) drops into the fitting, in the head. (Back end of the head) (No, not out of the threaded area, but right at the port, little hole that the copper probe drops in to) By the way, I did start the engine and it ran beautifully, but I noticed the coolant again bubbling out of that same area, (temp probe) so I shut it down after 20 secondss. I have not started it since. Not sure what's going on, air bubbles? Head gasket? This engine was "supposed" to be rebuilt 2,000 miles ago, (appears so, as it's extremely clean) Also, to be very comprehensive, there was NO thermostat in the engine. The truck has no heater in it. Well, there you go, chew on that, and man, would I appreciate some feedback on this issue. I have been waiting all winter and now most of the summer to run this baby, and she looks fabulous now and I can't wait any longer! Thanks all in advance for your insight. CJB

I would say that the "probe" is not seating against the head. Pull it and check for a clean rust free seat area.

Thankd 68 Dave!... seems to easy but maybe so that would be great. Much apprecaited! Regards, CJB

Carey,

Welcome to Stovebolt.com

Carey & Dave,

While Dave gave the quick/clear reply, I was posting a long-winded reply about the probe and fitting (with irrelevant information about Blue Flame engines). I deleted that post and have a few photos and a few questions for Dave.

Here is a 1954 temperature probe installed in an adapter fitting installed in a 1960 head.

My question for Dave is: at what locations are leaks possible (and which area seems to be where Carey has a leak)? annotated temperature probe

Yes, it does seem to seal in both of those annotated areas shown. Please keep in mind the "copper wire" pulls out very easily from the hole in the square nut where the spring is inserted.

Carey,

That "copper wire" is a sealed copper tube connected to the probe. Does the tube on your fitting pull out of the hole in the nut? If it does, I'd say your line is broken and the probe/sensor will not do its job.

No the tube does not pull out of the hole in the nut, just the copper wire pulls out, so it's probably snapped off from the tube if I follow you correctly. In other words, I have just the bare wire im my hand if I pull it from the spring from the nut. If so, do you or anyone know where I can get a new probe? You guys are great and I love this forum! Thanks for all the quick and illustrated information.

if any of that unit is damaged, your gauge is trashed, the probe end of the sending tube can't be repaired at home

Bill

Bill, that is what I thought. So, then, I need a whole new probe and guage? Or rather does the "wire probe connect to the temperature guage in the dash? Any ideas where I might get this piece? Thanks,

CJB

there is no "wire" involved, as Tim mentioned above, the gauge has a sealed capillary tube from it to the probe end that is filled with a fluid/gas that expands and contracts with temperature [usually wrapped with a protective 'spring' near the end] - if any part of that is damaged it requires special tools/techniques to rebuild, so you need another gauge that has a good tube to replace yours

Bill

Thanks Bill! Now I understand how it's all put together. Very informative indeed. In the meantime, anyone out there know of where I might find a new guage?

CJB

Two things here.

Did you use the adapter bushing in the 235 head when you installed the temperature probe in the 235 head? On some 216's, the hole in the 216 head is larger and a bushing must be used to adapt the probe to a 235 head.

If you need a rebuild on the probe, check with Tim at Bow Tie Bits, www.bowtiebits.com

Carey, Classic chevy truck parts, Jim Carter, The Truck Shop...will all have the gauge with the tube and sensor attached. It runs about 50-70 dollars. The pain is getting under the dash to remove the gauge cluster and replacing it..without breaking the oil pressure line or disconnecting any wires or putting a crink in your neck. They will also carry the adaptor for the sender to screw into the head if you need that.
Good Luck

Somebody posted a tech tip about replacing the capillary tube assembly with one from an aftermarket gauge by cooling the bulb in an ice/salt mixture and cutting and splicing the tube near the original stovebolt dash gauge by soldering both ends into a close-fitting brass sleeve. It's an interesting concept, maybe worth a try one of these days if I can find a non-working temp gauge to tinker with. I'm thinking that a dry ice/alcohol cooling mixture might work even better to keep as much fluid as possible in the sensor bulb. The temperature of that mixture gets down to 40 degrees below zero or so. That's how we installed big bronze bushings in the tire curing presses I used to maintain. The bushing would shrink far enough to be a slip fit in a hole about 12" in diameter, then expand to be a very tight fit in the hot press housing.
Jerry

Tim, thanks for the picture illustration of the temperature sensor, fitting. In your bottom annotation, (bottom pic) it shows a "nipple" below the flange. Mine does not have that nipple just the flange or "seat". Does that mean I have a different sensing unit, or does it mean that, that part (nipple) is broken off and has fallen into the head?
Thanks again,

CJB

Thanks to everyone who has responded to my initial thread about the temperature sensor in my 235. I can't tell you all how much I appreciate your expertise, and suggestions. This forum is just amazing!

Regards, CJB

Tim, The only place the probe seals is between the bottom of the flange/lip and the head.

Thanks, Dave.

That is what I thought. When you use the adapter-fitting for later heads, does the probe still seal against the head or does it seal against the adapter-fitting?

Thanks,

Tim,
It then seats in the adapter.

On the later heads the hole in the head is just a straight pipe thread - - - -there's no seat area for the sender. The adapter shrinks the hole to the right size and thread and provides a seat for the sensing bulb.
Jerry

A caveat, i have new after market gauges and the probe is shorter than the original and reads head temp which reads 20 degrees higher. i put a radiator cap with a temp gauge in it to check for the proper temp.

Well, got the coolant issue all squared away with the help of everyone here on the forum. Got the new temperature gauge ordered. Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions. Now I have another problem going on with the carb. The thing is, I had the truck running for 2 days and it ran very well, had to do a bit more tweaking (and was about to get that done) to get the timing spot on, but at least it was running pretty good. This morning I went out to do some more work and it started right up and it ran for about 30 seconds and then it just died. Just like the fuel was shut off. Now it won't start at all, sometimes sounds like it wants to but doesn't. The carb is the Rochester B single barrel and it has been rebuilt. I did it myself, and I am very meticulous to say the least. Here is what is happening as I try to start it. I get in turn the key, don't choke it, do not touch the gas pedal, hit the starter, nothing but turns over. Go out check the carb and it's all wet with gas and it seems to be coming between the second and third section, or in other words, just above the base section. I have taken the carb off and torn it down 3 times now to check (everything) and it seems to be perfect, but stills it leaks. Totally stumped, frustrated! Help! Any and all ideas?
Thanks in advance CJB

So are you saying that the temperature gauge is right on the radiator cap? In order to tell the temperature you need to open the hood and read the cap? Is it accurate? How much are they? Interesting idea.

Just so you know, yes I did set the float level at 1 9/32". Set the float drop to 1 3/4". The floats are leveled off, or in other words equal.
CJB

Well, got the coolant issue all squared away with the help of everyone here on the forum. Got the new temperature gauge ordered. Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions. Now I have another problem going on with the carb. The thing is, I had the truck running for 2 days and it ran very well, had to do a bit more tweaking (and was about to get that done) to get the timing spot on, but at least it was running pretty good. This morning I went out to do some more work and it started right up and it ran for about 30 seconds and then it just died. Just like the fuel was shut off. Now it won't start at all, sometimes sounds like it wants to but doesn't. The carb is the Rochester B single barrel and it has been rebuilt. I did it myself, and I am very meticulous to say the least. Here is what is happening as I try to start it. I get in turn the key, don't choke it, do not touch the gas pedal, hit the starter, nothing but turns over. Go out check the carb and it's all wet with gas and it seems to be coming between the second and third section, or in other words, just above the base section. I have taken the carb off and torn it down 3 times now to check (everything) and it seems to be perfect, but stills it leaks. Totally stumped, frustrated! Help! Any and all ideas?
Thanks in advance CJB

If it has that much overflow i would check the float for pin holes. it is not shutting off the fuel.

Thanks for the imput we b OLD! That could possible be it.

Are you sure the coil is still working? Sounds like it could be ignition related.

Will it start with the throttle wide open?

Do you have a timing light? if so, tape the trigger down with it hooked to any one of the plugs, point it at the cab and watch as you try to start the engine. Does the light flash?

Joe

I have (had) a rochester that did the same thing. No rhyme nor reason to it. the float is set perfectly, and does not have a hole in it I can take the float out within 3 minutes of shutting it off, the carburetor is still full of gas and there is nothing inside the floats, I finally gave up and put the YF on I had laying around and it works fine now. But if you do ever figure out why its doing that let me know...I used the rochester for 25 years with not a problem, then....it started doing that, sometimes.....I'm afraid to try and use it again. Last time my car was in the shop for 4 days which turned into 2 weeks, I had to drive the truck in pouring rain, and the last 4 or 5 days I had to deal with the possessed carburetor.

Brokenhead, possessed? Cripe sakes. Yeah it does act that way for no rhyme or reason behind it. I don't have another carb to put on it and besides this will drive me nuts until I can make sense to it.
Thanks for your thoughts.
CJB

Joe H,

I do need to get a timing light, but will a 12V light work on a 6V system, or do they sell a 6V timing light? This question really does show how much of a novice I really am.
CJB