The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop First Full Run of 216

Well, I fired up the '42 216 today for the first official time other than a quick start with a blast of starter fluid a time or two. I started it on the test stand hooked up to the radiator mounted to a jig attatched to the stand. Amazing...after sitting for almost 40 years and being unstuck twice, it runs fairly well and does not smoke!!! how does that happen???

It runs pretty smooth with acceleration but pretty rough at idle. Checked for vaccum leaks with a can of starter fluid sprayed around the intake/exhaust and it did increase in rpm a little when sprayed. I ran it on the stand for 40 minutes or so and although the rad leaks a little it did not over heat at all! The rough idle bugs me though, I will have to dig into it when i get a chance.

I guess the question I have is regarding the stater, coil and distributor. They are all 6 volt and I am running them off a 12 volt battery...straight off the battery. Will this damage the coil and dist??? Can this increased voltage affect the idle or the way it runs. Can I run the starter off the 12 volt batt and run the coil/dist off of a 6 volt batter charger? Thanks

Chris,
I found a 1928 White Fire Engine in a field near Fresno, CA two years ago. the farmer who owned it told me he last ran it in 1980.
It has an old flat head six with two updraft carburetors on it plus a dual ignition with two plugs per cylinder. I replaced both sets of points, condenser and rotors and gave it some "Smelling Salts." After a few 12 volt jumper moments it lit off and after a short warm up idled like it had just run yesterday. Luck? Maybe but I agree it is amazing. I have since 12 volted this rig and even kept the 6 volt starter. It really spins fast but other than light bulbs and voltage drops on the gauges it is still running fine.
Normbc9

Prolonged running of a six volt coil on 12 volts will probably overheat it and damage it. If there is too much current it could also cook the points but I am guessing that won't happen.

For a short time, the points will be OK, you don't want to run them on 12 volts all the time. The coil would be the biggest concern. I think a 6 volt one might go bad really fast. The points are stepped down to 8 or 9 volts by way of a resistor wire on the truck. For testing go for full voltage.

Check the valve adjustment for rough idle and/or carb adjustment.

The starter will live just fine on 12 volts as long as you don't stand on it for extended periods of time. Normal use is OK.

Voltage will not hurt idle, it should make it better with a hotter spark.


joe

Swap to a 12 volt coil, and add a ballast resistor between the battery and the coil for extended running time, and you should be able to run it indefinitely without problems. You might have to jumper around the resistor for startup, but not unless it has trouble getting going without the bypass. The starter will work great on 12 volts- - - -just don't crank it for long periods of time.
Jerry

Thanks for the help guys! I had a new 6 volt battery I bought about 9 years ago but it sat on a lower shelf in the garage without charge most of that time...stupid me. Now it doesnt want to charge to full capacity and doesnt hold a charge. Dried up too long i guess.

Thank for the tips and clarification on 12 volt operation. I think there may be a 12 volt coil in an old wrecked '74 truck on the property with a straight 6. I will have to check.

The rough idle bothers me. If i could get it smooth I could take this thinkg off the test stand, clean her up and give it a nice fresh coat of paint and move on to body work.

I have several manifold gasket sets on hand. Has anyone ever tried to double up and use two manifold gaskets for a better seal? Although the old W-1 isnt in the best of shape I a guessing at this point that the erratic idle is a vaccum issue.

I am running the engine on a wooden test stand without rubber mounts of course so it is hard to tell just how it is really idling...also there is no exhaust hooked up so it makes it difficult to hear how the engine is running as well. Wish I had an exhaust to hook up.


Chris.

I'm with Joe, check the valve lash. The manual says no tune up is complete without checking/adjusting the lash. If that doesn't smooth her up check the usual suspects, the carb, ignition components, distributor shaft wear, etc..

Thanks again for the tips.

What is the general consensus on running the motor on the test stand for extended periods of time with no exhaust hooked up? I heard this can be bad for the engine, especially when shut down hot. Is there truth to this? Will it run smoother with an exhaust?

Thanks guys...I really appreciate it.

The exhaust provides back pressure and any tuning you do without it will just be practice.

I assume the ballast resistor is the white ceramic do-dad that is generally attached to the firewall?

That's correct, Dennis.

Other than being loud, I don't know of anything it will hurt to run it on the stand without any exhaust system. Tune it right there, should be fine.

It used to be said, with short manifolds or no pipe, the valves would cool to fast and hurt them in some way. But a lot of airplanes had very short pipes and never hurt a think. Maybe if you worked the engine extremely hard with no pipe then shut it off with glowing red valves, you might hurt them, but a test stand will just fine.


Joe

If you're concerned with cold air getting back to the valves, add a short piece of exhaust pipe off the exh. manifold. A couple of feet should be plenty to minimize any pulsations that could draw cool air back to the exhaust valves. It's sort of an "old mechanic's tale" that running short or no exhaust pipes can warp valves. A leak between the manifold and the head would be more likely to cause problems than running with no exhaust pipe.
Jerry

Ok. Great info like always guys. Back to trying to get this old girl to idle like an old Singer. Maybe not possible without a valve job...engine compression seems great.

I assume that one of the reasons to run it is to listen for any problems. How will you do that with no muffler?

Exactly!!! I will try and get a muffler on it this weekend...even if I have to rig something off an old junker on the property. Any old muffler will do, just have to figure how to adapt to the engine.

I got one from a junkyard. I had to explain that it was just for testing. I had a short piece of front pipe left and I hooked it up with clamps and flex pipe.

Great idea. I may just do that.

Well just a quick update. After a resetting the valve lash with the engine hot, re-gapping the plugs (which for some reason I had gapped at .020) now at .040, and checking the point gap the engine runs a little better. Maybe even good but it is a little hard to tell without an exhaust. Maybe tomorrow. Had a little trouble with stop leak plugging up the rad (see other thread) but all is well now I believe. Havent actually set the timing with a light yet but will once I get an exhaust on. Thanks for all the help so far.