The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts Today's ODSS Rescue Mission a success!

The Old Dominion Stovebolters' Rapid Response Team today rescued what we believe to be a '49 GMC 470. It is the ebay truck you may recall being discussed here in our own ebay/craigslist forum, as well as on the ATHS site and the Old GMC Trucks site.

It was a touch chilly, but otherwise a gorgeous day on Maryland's Eastern Shore to be spending the day on a Big Bolt mission. Many thanks to Grigg, Billy Marlow and John H. (KB3CSW) who were on-scene and actually performed the rescue, and to Mike Roache and Doug H (Hambone) who helped back at homebase with unloading and starting the beast.

See the photos of the day here

Particulars on the truck: It has the GM-authorized integral sleeper, the big 302 six, air brakes and Motor Wheel style Dayton Adapters. The air system pressurized, the brakes work and we got the engine to run. A little... (the carb needs some love ...)

A fun day! Even if we smoked the brakes a little coming out of Davidsonville ...

A fun day indeed! Seems like a long one too...

Lots of interesting stuff on this truck that's for sure.

Anyone know sheetmetal wise what sets this 400 series apart from the smaller 1.5 and 2 ton GMC trucks? Front fenders I know and I'm guessing that's it but don't have a parts book to know for sure.

Grigg

Hy Guys, good job, looks like the truck has some rare pieces on it.

yer suppost to keep the FIRE in da Cylinders!

Differences 400 series, vs 300 series. Larger fenders(& inner fenders), larger front, & rear axles, larger springs, larger frame. That's a very neat truck, wish I could have been there. Any idea, what type of body it had on it.

Spanky, not sure what type of body it may have had on it and the son it law (Curtis) didn't know the history on the truck other than it sat in a barn for several years there on the Eastern Shore before they got it. It appeared that the frame from the cab back had been lengthened or modified at least once. From the center of the rear axle to the end of the rails I think was probably 5 feet or so. John can probably give the accurate measurements. For a farm truck hauling grain or potatoes, a sleeper probabaly wouldn't be nessesary. My guess would be some type of box but who knows. John and Curtis exchanged info and hopefully he will find out more about it from his father in law. Curtis had a few other Stovebolts that may even end up here on the site for sale.

We had a a fun day thats for sure. I think with a little help to the carb and we would have been driving. I'm thinking, Homecoming project!

Dave, with exhaust missing just past the collector and the above mentioned carb issue, it was hard to keep the fire IN her!

Thanks John, Grigg, John H., Doug and Mike. A bonus for the day was setting the cab back on Doug's truck. Another milestone for his truck's restoration project.

Billy

Spanky,
Do you know offhand if the front spring hangers can be swapped between the 400 and 300? I understand they are different, just curious if they use the same rivet holes/pattern. The rear of the front spring hangers do look swappable.
I ask because the frame on this truck is complete junk and we could find a 2 ton frame pretty easy, then swap axle, springs, hangers, and fenders + inner fenders.

Grigg

Can't wait to see this sleeper cab in person. Also looking forward to seeing Hambones cab back on his chassis. Thanks for the photos.

I still don't know who actually bought the truck.
But congrads on the purchase and it looks like you all had a good time yesterday.
You guys have the addiction as bad as any of us.

Don

Don, thats funny because the word addiction came up several times during the trip yeseterday!

Bill
This is a straight up question.
Who bought the truck, or is it a group addiction to save the sleeper project?

Don

Oh, its definitley a group addition!! and all I can say is that there will be several owners of what you see in the pictures......
Since all I bought yesterday was my lunch, thats as straight up as I can be. Who knows what the future will bring as I think John and Grigg are learning things about this truck that make it pretty special.

Billy

If it is indeed a 470, there were lots of options available and you can't really go by by books. You just have to see what you have got. Springs could come with or without torque rods, different amount of leaves, etc. If it has a 302, that would have not been available in 1949. There are two possibilities, either the engine was a transplant or the coach builder used split window service cabs to build the integral sleeper. The seller listed it as a 54. Did he have any documentation pointing towards 54? The fact that it has spoke adapters in the rear points to the fact that it was probably a tractor at one time. And it appears to have the clamps on the steering column for a trolly valve. A 400 series frame was quite a bit different than a 300 series. A 300 was more like a beefed up pickup and a 400 started leaning towards being a scaled down truck.

I've got a 450 series COE that was originally a road tractor. (Came from Spanky) It has hydro-vac brakes but as far as I know the frame is orginal to the back axle. If I can help with any measurments etc. let me know. I'm interested to see how this project progresses.
Scott

Soooo.....if I'm understanding correctly, the truck itself is not being restored per se, but is being parted out as a donor for some other projects?

Nothing wrong with that. Just making sure I understand what the plan is. Glad you guys got it.

Comparing measurements not much of anything attached to the frame is easily swappable between 400 and 300 series trucks.... so won't be using front suspension from one on the other.

Grigg

Just saw the post over at ATHS. Interesting truck. I really like the Air Brakes part.

Keep us posted on the project.

Bill

Rich
I don't think they know what the plan is, other than saving what they can from a rare bolt.
Guess we will learn more about it at the reunion.

Don

Don -- We have a plan! We're not quite sure what it is, but we have a plan.



Also, to answer a few questions:

Why am I thinking it's a 49 and not a 54 (as titled...)? Well, to be honest, I don't know for sure -- I am assuming that the Chevrolet cues apply to the GMCs:

1. Turn-down door handles
2. single-piece windows
3. Driver's side vent
4. Series number on hood side Also, the "470" on the hood was our clue that the truck could be a 470...

Don't these cues together indicate a '49? Wouldn't the '54 have no side vent on the driver's side, vent windows in the doors, just "GMC" on the hood sides and push-button door handles?

Also, KB3CSW and I have a few more pics loaded in the same place You can see some of the other trucks the gent owned who was selling the truck.

Regards,
John

The greatest plans are made by people that are ready to take the risk of not knowing what the out come will be.
If you don't take that risk, there will not be an out come.

And I have to quote John,
"None of us is as smart as all of us"

Keep us up to date.

Don

I don't think the 470 was offered until 1950 and that was about the last year of the old 202V Clark. It should have come with a 270, but it was common to replace a 270 with a 302. 1952 was the first year for the 302. Is there a tag in the door jamb that says something like HF470? That would be a 1950.

Also, if it's like my '52, there should be a data plate inside the glove box door that tells what model truck it is, as well as what engine, transmission, axles, etc the truck came with. Of course that tag could be long gone by now.

Other things that point to it being a tractor at one time were matching paralell holes in lower back panel of sleeper and up high matching holes the size and spacing similiar to glad hand holders.Didn't see any obvious electrical connector holder.

Now 2ton may be best to leave ownership in dark as each individual can point to someone else as the culprit.

Glad you all were able to get it running, likely one of the few big bolts to have working brakes so soon after arrival

John, thats a good point. We only had it sputtering a few times but it was building air in those breif thimes it ran. So often you read ads about old bolts and it is mentioned that the "brakes are frozen" or "needs brake work".
Hope we can get it running well enought to run it up and down the road at the Homecoming.

Billy

Well, here's some more data points.

I found a plate that says the sleeper mod was done by Automotive Industries, Inc in Owendale, Mich. A quick Google turned up:

"Automotive Industries in Owendale MI started in the 1950’s by Elmer Wetlaufer, John McKenzie, and Al McKenzie. They began building tractor cabs for Ford and sun visors for Chrysler Motors. Later they built sleeper cabs for medium and heavy-duty trucks and then crew cabs. Al McKenzie moved the business six miles north to Pigeon, Michigan to start Alton Co. in 1969. He began building sleeper cabs and crew cabs (that Automotive Industries had started) located at 120 N. Sturm Rd. From that point they really concentrated on the crew cabs for light, medium, and heavy-duty trucks. "

So that's cool.

Data plate on the glovebox door says that it's a model HC 473 and originally had a 270 engine. So it must have gotten the upgrade to the 302 later in life.

Front axle is a Clark F466, rear axle is an Eaton TSDP17601 with 6.50 and 8.87 gears

Has 11 spring leaves in front, 11 in the rear and 6 auxiliaries.

Now this is interesting -- the data plate says the tranny is a Clark 207V 5 speed with OD. Hmmm. But the plate on the tranny itself clearly says that it's a 202V. Maybe it got a new tranny when the engine blew up... ?

And for wheels, it came with the Dayton adapters as the plate says for wheels it has "Wheels: Dayton Studs: 6"

Very fascinating to be deciphering this old beast.

John

Is the Clark 207V a rare transmission? Is the rear thats in it the original or did it get changed too?

Cool stuff.

Billy

A Clark 207VO would be correct for a HC470 in 1950. If it were a 1954, it would have been born with a 302. An HC473 would be a 1950 model with 161" wb. Finding components other than what is listed on the line set in the glove box is also a good indication that it was once a tractor and was driven a lot of miles. Replacing a component with something that would fit was very common in those days.

Is the 202V a 5 speed also? I'm guessing being minus the O it would not be an overdrive.

202V is a little older version of a Clark 5 speed with direct 5th.

Thanks for the clarification

Ken -- Is the bolt pattern on the 202V different from the 420? I have a friend who's interested in the transmission and wants to mount it to a Cummins 4BT that has an SM420 on it now.

Thanks,
John

I'm a little fuzzy on the Clark swaps. I think there was a Clark that fit the old bolt pattern of the 47 and earlier sliding gear flywheel housing. And then there were Clarks that fit the GMC twin disc clutch housing. Whether or not there was one that fit where a SM 420 was, I just don't remember. If you look at the clutch housing and it looks like the one in a smaller truck, it will probably fit. If the clutch housing looks noticeably different than the smaller truck, it probably won't fit. Of course, there is the possibility that they used an early clutch housing and transmission, because the bolt pattern on the engine is the same on all GMC up to 302. However, if the guy who's interested is into rock crawlers, they are accustomed to doing machine work.

OK KB, I'll quit asking who the real owner is.
It does sound like there will be a good turnout of Dominion folks at the reunion this year.

Don

It's a '50. No vent windows in the door.
"HC 473"
H = '50/'51 production
C = Conventional Cab
47 = 470 Series
3 = 161" wheelbase

Cool -- Thanks Rob!

Congrats to the Rapid Response Team! What a cool old rig to rescue. The sleeper looks so good on it! Please post more pics of it when the opportunity presents itself. Always good to see one more saved from the crusher.

What do you guys plan to do with this truck? I hate to see it go to parts. I would love to find a truck like this one. If you guys know where I might could find another one I would be very happy. I want an air brake tractor like this to pull a falt bed trailer. Any leads would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Brad

Brad -- Unfortunately, the cruel reality is that we can't save them all. The frame on this truck has been cut and stretched and messed with over the years to the point that the frame is scary -- blistering, delaminating rust. It is simply not salvageable. We have found homes for all of the major components, including the axles and air brake set up. At this point, about all I expect to sell for scrap is just the frame itself (less the spring perches, etc), the hood and the usual portions of the cab (corners and floor board). The rest of it is spoken for at this point.

It's not even a case of it dying so others may live -- this truck was dead. We've saved as much of it as we could.

If you want to find another one, I suggest you look out west. Anything here on the mid-Atlantic coast is going to be like this one -- marginally salvageable for parts at best.

Regards,
John

At least we saved most of it. This truck was headed for the scrapper in it's entirety most likely.

Is the sleeper being saved I hope, that thing is probably worth some $$. It would be a neat addition to any Big Bolt