The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop How do you guys avoid breaking old bolts off?

I was just wondering if there are some good tricks on how to avoid breaking off bolts.

Like bolts that go in the block.
You know for the water pump or studs on carb or generator brackets or exhaust manafold studs etc. etc.

I typically try them first and if they are hard I squirt them with Kano Sili Kroil


It would be better to always remember to sqirt first.


But how do you guys do it?

I have heard some use heat but that is usually on exposed bolts like on exhaust clamps and the like.

Or also possibly shocking it a bit with a couple pounds of a hammer on the end.

Other Ideas?

Right now I have a water pump on my 57 3100 283 that has 2 bolts that came off easy and the two lower bolts are pulling hard. I am affraid they may twist off and either break off or strip the threads in the block.


When you assemple parts like this do you put any antiseeze grease or anything on them?

If it is an area where you absolutely cannot use heat; then an air hammer wrench is your best friend.

(Opinion, others will differ) there is no penetrating liquid available that is as effective as either heat or an air hammer wrench.

Jon.

I find that penetrating oil almost always helps the situation, and certainly never hurts.
I like PB Blaster myself.

With the penetrating oil don't be afraid to also use a some time.

If it's moving but stubborn go forward and backward kind of gently to let the penetrating oil work in, then try harder to remove it.

For stubborn screws a hand impact driver is often helpful.

And if something does break off don't worry to much. Learn to use your welder to build up the bolt and grab onto it with some vicegrips, the concentrated heat of welding on the bolt works wonders!

Grigg

All of the above- - - - -Kroil, impact, and heat. Kroil seems to work best if I apply it a few days before I really need to make the bolt move. Then use a back-and-forth action, stopping when things start to tighten up. Drilling/tapping a broken bolt as a last resort is a one-shot deal- - - -get the first hole drilled off-center and you're in deep doody! Set the part up solidly on a drill press or a milling machine if at all possible.
Jerry

"And if something does break off don't worry to much. Learn to use your welder to build up the bolt and grab onto it with some vicegrips, the concentrated heat of welding on the bolt works wonders!"

Mine usually break off inside and do not leave anything hanging out to weld to.


"then an air hammer wrench is your best friend." Often areas are too tight for my air hammer. But in the case of a frozen bolt would it get them out without breaking them? Is the issue that I put too much continual force on it by hand and that it needs a sudden impack to free it?

One dirty trick with impact is to have a throttle valve on it set so low (or set regulator to 5 or 10 psi) you can stall it with one hand. This applied to a sticky bolt gently vibrates it with slight impact and is not putting enough force on to break it off. Like all methods with stubborn bolts it is not a magic solution that works all the time.

Dan Bentler

Get a big container of "patience" and use heat.

A lot easier to take your time than to try to remove broken studs.....

Before you even start squirt penetrating oil... your choice... I am partial to JB Blaster.... Gibbs... or even homemade tranny fluid and acetone.

It may take days ( see weeks) for oil to penetrate...remember it did not rust overnight.

Heat is crucial.... slow penetrating heat..... in a water pump situation I would heat up the block around the bolt gradually...at least two inches around the bolt....tap tap with a small hammer.... try twisting with a hand held wrench..... if it doesn't move...let it cool and spray oil again. Usually after 3 or 4 attempts.....with sufficient heat it will break loose......REFRAIN FROM TRYING TO REMOVE IT RIGHT AWAY.... Twist only a 1/4 turn....spray and leave it.... twist back and forth another 1/4 to 1/2 turn....spay oil again....eventually it willcome off.

Even manifold bolts that have been half rusted/burned away and very weak.... if you take time and slow movements with plenty of heat.... they will come off.

My biggest hate is for stud extractors that eventually break in place and makes repairs quasi impossible.

Good luck..... working on a 40 or 60 year old rusted truck has its challenges.... and rewards.

Bob

Thanks everyone. In this case I just now was able to get the lower two waterpump bolts out using the Koil overnight, twist back and forth, more kroil out a bit more kroil, twist band an forth method. Oh and did I mention hold your breath, fingers crossed method!

They came out. looks like a couple outer threads were the issue. You can see how it had rust build up on them after the bolt was out.

In general this "old bolt" truck has been really good about not breaking bolts off. I have had cars with only 10 years on them that broke way more bolts. They just do not make them like they use to.

In fact I was really surprised to see how well the interior of my cab cleaned up with some sanding. Nice brite silver metal. I ecpected to find luts of rust but it was pretty clean except for a few of the normal spots on the step and around the cab mounts. But they cleaned up ok.

I think the fenders will present more issues with respect to rust. I will probably have to use some patch panels or a replacement fender on the front fneders.

Thanks for the sugestions. Will have to try the low powered air hammer idea in the future....

Dang, back to my day job......

i never ran acoss this situation yet like others have said all the options listed are applied when the need arises and depends what im trying to remove dictates the best approach. sometimes i find if it doesnt want to come out and doesent need to come out i save it for the next guy.

That's where the "Learn to use your welder" part comes in.

It took time for me to get the hang of it, but in the past 5 or 6 years that I've been using that trick I've removed hundreds of broken fasteners, and can count on one hand the number that didn't work and had to be drilled out.

A TIG welder is nice, that's what I have, but it can be done with a MIG, and even with a stick welder. Not as easy with the Stick, but if you must there are special welding rods for welding to broken bolts below the surface (I haven't used any, but a professional welder friend told me about them..)

Don't be afraid to try it, if you never try something you'll never get the hang of it.

Grigg

something I always do with old fasteners is give them a slap tighter first, best way to break the corrosion free

Bill

i bought those special rods years ago in both sizes, small and smaller. they work real well. the trick with them is getting them to run. naturally the bigger the hole the easier they are to start and get a good bite into the host metal. my creeper wheels were stripped to the point they kept falling off. i built up the stud that the caster is on and when it was higher than the nut i welded the stud to the nut with regular rods. they'll never fall off again. it looked like ball bearing stacked on top of one another as i built it up. ground them round so that it looked like a crooked bolt. it took a couple of attempts to get a good first bite but after that it was easy. the flux doesnt allow the rod to get into the threads of the part that has the broken piece in it. it is possible to negate that and when you do you reach for the drill. thats when things go from bad to worse to maybe junk.

...I agree with everyones suggestions and even a couple new idea's from you guys. I should be more patient. I will say, a lot of bolts on my old panel didn't give me any warning, just SNAP when I tried to get them off...especially the rear fender bolts.
But I would like to say I found out that KROIL, my favorite, is made for different uses. SILI-kroil is sort of like WD40 and has lubricating abilities...AERO-Kroil is for penetrating.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong. This could make a difference in how well it works.

Everyone has their favorite penetrating oil. I use some stuff that Primrose makes and I use their fuel conditioner as well. One of the things I do on bolts that are going to be a real pain if they break such as those in caged nuts is I plug weld a bigger nut to the head and then throw water on it. That breaks nearly all of them loose. If they break off, I plug weld a nut to the broken piece. I have never had one to break off so deep in the threads that I couldn't reach them with a wire welder. Its amazing what welding on a rusted bolt will do.

Try candle wax. Drip candle wax on the exposed threads. I picked up that tip from some hotrod magazine. It's supposed to work. Haven't tried it myself, but I plan to.

Candle wax/parrafin works, but the bolt needs to be red hot first. Push the candle or block of sealing wax firmly against the hot bolt or nut. Have the fire extinguisher handy- - - -the flames are impressive when the parrafin fumes ignite.
Jerry

an old trick I learned from a wv coal mine welder vise grips a nut slightly bigger than the bolt you broke off in the block place nut on stud and weld through the nut while holding with vice grips as soon as cherry red color goes away turn out with vice grips

I have been using the Napa Auto Parts Super Penetrating Oil. I will spray the bolt in which manner which I figure seep down onto the threads. Wait a little bit. Sometimes I will go out day in advance and spray things down. I will spray the bolt again just before attempting to remove a bolt or nut. When I start to remove the bolt and it feels like its starting to bind I will turn it back the other way and will often work it back and forth with a wrench or socket. I am successful 80%-90% of the time with this method.

Also popping the head of the bolt with a hammer sometimes helps loosen the corrosion.

It is always better to get the bolt in one piece as drilling out bolt is a pain and sometimes impossible depending where the bolt is located.

Hope this helps.
Walt Williams
La Verkin, UT

kroil and the pb plaster work great even if you have to wait overnight sometimes.

center punch or a chisel can work on a bolt head where an impact cannont reach, if you strike into the direction it needs to come out.

As said before the welding nut technique has always worked for me if the bolthead snaps. If its broken too deep you can start out with a washer then weld the nut on top of that.