The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop hard starts and engine noise

Not sure where to post this.
I had a little trouble getting the truck to start on Sunday before the Parade. After the parade I drove home and the engine started ot make a whining noise.

I localized it to the generator. Apparently the rear oil journal was blocked and the bushing was starved for oil. It is scored up pretty bad. I cleaned it up a little and cleaned out the oil journal but it still whines and the oil just leaks out.

I think the hard start was related to the loss of juice form a dragging generator. (see previous posts regarding power to pertronics ignition)

I have ordered a rebuilt gen from classic parts but I don't think it will be here in time...I have my first show on July 11.

Any suggestions on how to fix this so I can drive to the show. The bushing is junk and can probably be replaced but the conditon of the shaft is questionable. Also is there a seal that I burned up...What keeps the oil in the bushing???

Thanks for any help
Rich

A generator shouldn't have anything to do with starting. Do you know anyone with an old generator? Just anything to keep tension on your belt. Buy your self a chap charger and keep the battery charged until you get a different generator. Or just live with the whine. You can't do much more damage.

Crenwelge,

In the past this truck has had starting problems all related to the level of battery output. It has a pertronix ignition and given the history I asume that the generator stopped fully charging at some point making starting hard again. (starts when I release the starter pedal as if there is not enough juice to run the starter and fire the pertronix ignition.

It was also very hot and I could have had some vapor lock issues but the starting issue is just to familiar.

I am trying ot get a local guy to fix this for me.
Thanks
Rich

That one sounds like a similar glitch I had with the T'Mater. It turned out to be a faulty ignition switch, no power going to the coil in the start position. But that is probably not the problem with yours because you are using the original foot-stomp mechanical linkage, mine is all electric.

If a battery is not fully charged, the draw from the starter can drop the voltage to where they do not start. You have probably had a partially discharged battery for some time. Now would probably be a good time to go through your starter too and check the cables.

Checked everything when I had this issue before, starter, grounds, wiring (all new harness), battery (load test). The problem started with the pretronix but has been solved for sometime. It was a faulty ground. Apparently the pertronics requires a full 6V or it does nothing.

I think the generator has ben failing and dropping the charge in the battery. It reached the fail point the morning of the parade then became evident later in the destroyed bushing.

I have a local guy who will replace the bushing but I am buying a rebuilt generator from classic parts. I figure if the bushing is gone what will be next. I really like driving this truck and trust it more each day. These setbacks although minor are disappointing.

The generator shop guy told me it was probably not the oil issue just a worn bushing. He says they don't require much oil which is what I thought. or maybe he's trying ot make me feel better.

Thanks for the advice and the support guys.
Rich

Put the new generator in but still hard starts(cranks and cranks but wont fire). Check out these stats.

with the key on an engine not running charge to coil is 6.14V

with the key on and engine running charge to coil is 6.10V to 6.30V depending on the speed of idle.

with key on and the starter cranking charge to coil drops to 4.75V (I am sure if this were a points distributor even 1 volt would cause a spark but the pretronix probably wont fire unless is has full or close to full voltage.)

Grounds all seem to be good based on ohms testing at various locations and physical inspection.

I am puzzled that this problem has returned. After fixing faulty grounds the problem was gone for a long time only to return unexpectedly.

Could be a starter problem but why intermittent? I will have the starter load tested when I bring the truck back home.

Could this be a voltage regulator issue??? Doesn't the VR regulate voltasge to the coil?

Please help I am getting balder by the minute ...I hate electrical problems.

no the reg doesn't control coil voltage, it controls current flow to the battery, so nothing to do with that

starters definitely drag down the battery so there's less for the ignition, that's why the bypass of the ign resistor when starting [12V], and the points dist wouldn't make a difference - I'd have the starter load checked, could be drawing way more than it should, the low volts to the coil is definitely the problem

Bill

why would the problem go away when I cleaned the grounds and come back a month later.

I plan to have the starter load tested when I bring the truck home in a few weeks.

Just say no to dielectric grease.

I found this in the tech tip section of this sight

http://www.fifthaveinternetgarage.com/index.html

Dielectric Grease Caution
DO NOT use dielectric electrical grease to keep battery posts free of corrosion, as dielectric grease is an insulator and has a low melting point. When dielectric grease melts (caused by the heat generated as the current passes thru the posts) it changes into a liquid form and runs down between the battery post and the cable clamp. All will be well until you shut off the engine and everything cools down.

When you go back to restart your car the battery will appear to be dead. In reality the current from the battery is not being allowed to pass thru to the battery cables. To correct the problem remove and clean both the cable ends and the battery posts with emery paper or a battery terminal cleaner tool and reinstall. That should restore your battery connection.

I cleaned the wretched stuff off my terminals and grounds and the truck starts like a dream.

PS they sold me this crap with my last battery.

Rich

PS...when I originally cleaned all the ground terminals and solved this problem I put Dielectric grease on all of them.

After the hot 4th of July weekend I guess the grease melted in to all my connections and the problem resurfaced....same exact problem (hard starts)...same situation (bad grounds)... differnet cause (dielectric grease not corosion).

It was a hard and pricey lesson learned.

Rich

OOPS! I just put a new ground cable on the burb a few weeks ago with...you guessed it. Then I had the starter rebuilt to 12V and installed the cable to it with the stuff too. I guess I have some cleaning to do.

Cletis

It may not be as bad with 12volt and an alternator. I did put a new pbattery on my 2004 Toyota and used dielectric grease and have not had a problem...yet.

I plan to clean it off though as soon as I get to it.

Never again will I use this...my old man always used petrolium jelly which doesn't melt as easily so it wont insulate your connections.

The regulator does control the voltage. When there is a light load, the regulator will be operating in voltage control mode. When there is a heavy system load, it will be operating in current limiting mode. When your engine is running well above idle, the voltage at the battery terminal should be no less then 7.2 volts.

your gen should not have anything to do with starting if i was a alt maybe but a gen no all it does is charge the battery and if the battery i fully charged i would be looking at something else

The problem is solved it was the dielectric grease. Could be it was preventing a full charge to the battery but more likely preventing full voltage from reaching the coil.

I cranked the starter for more than 30 seconds off and on. Then cleaned all the connections and tried again. The truck started within 1 second of cranking. This was after sitting for a full week untouched.

I did nothing but clean the terminals and grounds of the dreaded dielectric grease. There is nothing wrong with the battery or the "new" generator.

Rich

73

I still think if the generator was failing and not charging the battery fully that could cause a similar problem.

But in this case it was the $#@^&* dielectric grease!

Thanks
Rich

If you have a battery that is not charged properly, it will indeed affect the starter operation and the cranking voltage.

This was a good thread to read, I am taking a mental note to not ever use dielectric grease on my 6 volt system.

thats y i said if the battery was fully charged in my post read the post before u make a post next time truckernix

Wow, nice way to make new friends and gain respect.

Maybe people misunderstand your posts due to no punctuation, no capital letters, and cute IM/texting-style abbreviations. And/or, maybe others chose not to try to work through translating your first post.

now,now, boy's. Like many,ninth grade english was the hardest three years of my LIFE.

Nice punctuation. You need to work on the caps (upper case) and the misuse of apostrophe.

The is no real ninth grade grammar courses/lessons these days. It will only get worse.