The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Has anyone seen or turbocharged a 216 ?

Information or thoughts ?

I've seen a 216 but never once thought about turbocharging one.

Guess I will be the pioneer !

Just a thought, but with the babbit bearing bottom end I'd be a little concerned about a big increase in combustion pressure. My first thought would be to build based on a GMC or an insert 235 rather than start with the old tech bearings.

X2 on the babbit bearing issue. They don't take well to high rpm or increased load. The babbit material is very thin and is splash-oiled in the 216. It would be an expensive proposition to get the rods machined for inserts, change the pistons out from cast-iron to alluminum, and modify the oiling system for full pressure. All of these upgrades are included in the '54 and later 235's, a much better candidate (IMHO) for what you want to do.

Now just to play the other side... There is a roadster that attends shows in my neighborhood running an old Buick straight eight. That guy has a supercharger on his.

I don't know if the bearings are babbit or insert in that motor but I do know it has a VERY long crankshaft that would give me the same kind of worries the 216 with babbit give me.

Maybe we should ask what you really expect from this turbo motor?

Are you expecting some turbo whine and 'oh wows!' at the shows or are you expecting to push the horsepower way up. If the turbo is more for show than push maybe its a doable idea after all.

I don't like raining on anyone else's parade but unfortunately I find myself doing it all too often. Somehow I turn curmudgeon when I get on the Internet... Tell us a little more about your intentions. We might come back again with even more caution or might chuckle and say we want to see the pictures and watch the build.

Just doing something different to give it about 40 more horsepower 120 total .Ceramic coat the pistons tops ,low boost and small turbo ! Have lots of 216 parts to try .

Have fun. Stand back when she revs to 7000. lol

Is that a typo? Don't you mean to FRY?

Keep us posted, I may be skeptical that doesn't mean I won't enjoy watching you succeed!

I will do one for you guys next it will be the new big craze ! And thanks for the positive support .

for a turbo motor, I would suggest the 250 or 292. you can buy the parts to bolt it together, and the thing wont blow apart like the 216 will. what are you going to use for oil supply to the turbo on the 216? the oil pressure is not that high on the motor.

Thanks for the suggestion but keeping the 216 ! I have two other trucks 406 cu in , 640 hp 619 tq with 6 spd and 6.0 with auto 4spd.Looking to keep this truck different but keep original as possible .This truck is a 4400 so far shortened the frame and put a step side bed on it .

Every time I hear turbo I have to throw my 2 cents in, I had thought about a turbo 216 also, but I also do not think the rod bearings will hold up. that said if I were to go that route I would bore the rods for inserts, cross drill the crank, and fab an external oil pump. Ton of money when a 235 is ready to go! Good luck.

You can save yourself a lot of work and believe me sizing, plumbing in all the tubes and pipes, wastegate, timing retard, and much dialing in with no guidelines to go by is a lot of effort, plus around 3 grand cash if expenses are closely watched. After all done most likely the bottom end is going to leave a large dark oil puddle on the floor. Or, you could contact one of the nitrous outfits and have them tell you what set up to use to give a 40hp boost. A heck of a lot easier for 1/6 the cost. The nitrous can be activated at any RPM so you could kick it in at about the same that a turbo gets it's desired boost. Now, IF and that's a big IF the engine takes the cheap 40hp boost from the nitrous then you can go ahead and spend the big bucks on a turbo set up because you'd KNOW it would work.

I have to agree with Truckbiz, I don't think the internals or bottom end would hold up to that application/pressure. If you do this, please post a link to the vid. of it going down the track.

Hank

Go for it webster! just do a sh!t load of research first. personaly id love to see that working! have you given any thought to a Centrifugal blower instead? a little easier to work with maybe? any ways, what kind of carb are you going to be running? i know with a forced induction you have to do a lot of work on the carb. might want to go with forged pistons instead of aluminum. just be creative and remember the great John Quincy Adams, almost a century before the first auto was even built he said "Patience and Perseverance have a magical effect before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish." how was that guy to know what we needed to hear when working on our trucks over 200 years down the road? lol

So is there an established approach to upgrading the 216 to insert bearings? Are some cranks stronger than others? In my personal collection of motors is an early truck type 235 that looks like a 216. Are there parts on those motors that might add reliability to the bottom end of a 216 and make this effort more likely to succeed?

I'm a V-8 guy who happens to run one Jimmy 270. My knowledge of the 216 is really pretty thin...

I've had a bunch of experience building turbo charged Audi 5 cylinder motors and tuning them to over 650hp. (At least one of the Factory motors was at 950 de tuned ie with smaller turbo and different head)
I always thought that the chevy 6 could be fun to turbo charge. The pressurized motors will work better. Boost is hard on crank journal bearings. Audi uses a specific bearing, one shell is one hardness, the other shell is harder. I have seen Audi turbo motors built at home with the wrong bearings, they DO work, for a little while but not long.
Supercharging is probably better since the boost is constant. There is the lack of "Lag". The sudden punch of a turbo is what will kill the babbitt. That said....
Find a turbo that is small, water AND oil cooled, it will last longer. Triple k turbo from an Audi s4 would be a good choice, they are plentiful and have a wastegate in them already.
Jeremy

actually i was at a show in dewy,Ok and saw a turbo charged 235 the turbo was massive and looked like it took alot of rigging to get it to work but it did

Federal-Mogul makes a set of insert bearings that can be fitted to the Babbit rods, once they're bored out a little and honed to size. The splash-oiling system remains in place, and that would be the weak link. Some of the oldtime round track racers preferred the splasher engines, believing the solid crankshaft without any oil passages drilled in it was stronger. I'd suggest adapting a high-volume oil pump to the 216 drive system, and using the extra oil flow to keep the rods well-lubed and supply enough oil to the turbo bearings to keep them from burning out. An oil cooler would be an absolute must-have item. An air-to-air intercooler and a sequential electronic fuel injection system would be nice, as long as we're pipe-dreaming!
Jerry

Just put a electric van that is on with the key and people will think you have have a blower, which in a way it is.

I'm still trying to figure out why someone would want to turbo charge a 216.

The same reason some people play golf- - - - - - -waaaayyyyy too much time on their hands!
Jerry

I really enjoy seeing something besides a 350/350 and think the turbo 6 is a neat project. That said I would always thought the weak part of the 216 was the babbit bearings, and there are rebuilders who will install insert bearing with full pressure oiling if you have the money. It would cost you less money to go with a 235, with more or less the same results. I see no advantage to high pressure oil pump for rod bearings if you are using splash oiling. I think the 216, or perhaps the 235 was the recipient of something called the Beasley Supercharger (sp?) Years ago, in the 50’s, this was an aftermarket belt driven add on for some extra boost. There are a number of people who have put turbo’s on 235’s. Inliners International is a good place for reliable information with perhaps less skepticism. Good Luck.

I would love to have a VW diesel in my 51 if it would have had the power to push it. My wife's 2002 VW Beatle diesel has 130,000 miles on it and consistently gets 45 mph. Once I got 48 mph. VW has been making diesels for Europe for over 50 years and I expect mama's diesel will be running when the body rusts out.

The Roger Huntington and California Bill Fisher books from the early fifties discuss the conversion to full-pressure, insert rod bearings. Roger also has a section on supercharging, with a photo of the Besasie unit that Grant mentioned.

Hoyt

Here are some photos and description of the Besasie turbocharger. I wonder how many still exist after nearly sixty years.

Hoyt

I found a Besasie turbocharger ,still researching and getting more info thanks for the info Hoyt .

That's a pretty neat turbo setup, I like that it looks like it's supposed to be there and not patched together.
I found a discussion on the HAMB about forced induction on old GM sixes. There's a few off the wall blower configuratons in there, some are still in production.
Also found this video of a blown 6 on a stand bein run up and revved for a couple minutes. Sure it's a slant six, reminds me of the 232 I had in a Gremlin years back, but it sounds pretty nice to me.

I have a super charger that was made to fit and came off a Big Six 245 cu.in. Studebaker. Maybe someone would like to buy it and make it fit their Chevy?

Interrrrresting! I wonder if it would supply enough boost to make a 261 come alive? Drop me a PM or an email!
Jerry

Just a update parts are coming together looking to have it running very soon.

I am the proud owner of 3 Besasie automobiles. I've been learning more about Ray Besasie ever since. Where did you find a Besasie turbocharger?? I've been looking for one for several years to polish & hang on my wall.
Besasie called it a turbosupercharger. From what I know, it was hand built and he didn't build too many of them. The turbosupercharger came about after Besasie tuned up the family car and put his hand by the tailpipe to see how it was running. He thought there was a lot of wasted horsepower that needed to be used and came up with the turbosupercharger idea.
The turbosuperchargers were used on Mexican & South American racers in the 40s & early 50s.
Another story his son told me was that they were out for a Sunday drive in their '39 Chevy which was equipped with a turbosupercharger. An Auburn came up behind them, Ray downshifted that old non-syncro 3-speed and left the Auburn in his dust

Webstershotrods,

Do you still have your Besasie Supercharger? I recently acquired one and was looking for more info. Mine says "Besasie Cyclone" on top. Was just curious about how the oil lines feed/scavenge the top and bottom bearings.

Thanks,
Matt

I thought you only super/turbo-charged a small motor if there was no room for a big block 454? There is still no replacement for displacement! I don't get the enjoyment out of blowing up a 216. Wait!!! as a matter of fact, I do! I love V8's. A 216 would only be kept for use by a true purest bolter who could give it TLC. It's not suitable for this type of hot rodding, as you have been advised by ALL of the experts/posters, but your mind is set on it. If anyone could do it , it would be an aircraft mechanic like you. Post a picture of the explosion if you can.

If you're wanting to keep your vehicle relatively original and want to keep the original 216, don't do this experiment with that motor. Turbocharging the splash-oiling motor will almost certainly result in bearing failure. Do yourself a favour and wrap the 216 in plastic and get a full-pressure stovebolt six to start with.

im kinda in the market for a turbo kit for the 235 im building for my 46 1/2 ton, it already gonna push over 300 hp but i want more out of it, im also looking for a company to make me a fenderwell 6cyl. header. i guess Ill just have to take pictures, when its done

You might want to start w/ a 261. Looks same on outside.

I can't provide you with any insight, but I will ask a philisopchical question. Why go with a turbo over a supercharger? I'm not thinking a full sized blower, but maybe one of the smaller centriful units like a whipple or something. I saw a really cool looking one advertised in a recent issue of Classic Trucks.

So the question is: turbo or supercharger???

I have a super charger that was set up on a studebaker big six that I would part with. $950
(605) two O 1 - O six Ate 7 after 5pm or all weekend