The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Honing wheel cylinders

I have read about as much as I can find on honing wheel cylinders. Several articles say only one pass. Another said .003 over is OK (hardly possible with one pass). Yet another said .006 over is OK.

Has anyone out there pushed the cylinders beyond .006 over, and still used them successfully without sleeves? How about .01 or .015??

As to the sleeves, how thick is the material used for the sleeves, and is there someplace that sells the material?

I am suspecting that much that is now written on the subject is for power brakes. Those apply a lot more pressure to the wheels than the old standard brakes, and I have no intention of installing power brakes.

This is on a '39 JD pickup.

Thanks,

Gary

If you can't hone the pits out of the cylinder, throw it away. You are honing the cylinder to give the new seals clean surface free of pits to seal on. If you can't sit long enough to hone the pits out, buy a replacement. If you have any question as to whether the new seals will seat, buy a replacement. I have honed the cylinders long enough to get some bad pits out, when money was tight. You would have to hone for quite a while to get .015 out. IF you need replacements try Egge Mfg. Quite few rebuilds now come SS sleeves, that's another option.

Larry

As long as they seal and there are no pits you would be fine in my opinion. I've rebuilt the ones on my 56, 63 nova, and a bunch for my buddies. Take your time.

I can stand long enough to hone them. Not the issue. I also think all of the pits will...go away. I will continue to try the old rubber cups. If they still seal, then the new ones are sure to. I also may try to find some tossed pistons at the local brake shops. I can turn down larger pistons to adjust for the slight over-size. That will put full pressure on the rubber cups.

The old truck might have apoplexy if I put too much new stuff on it.

I almost had apoplexy when I priced the cylinders.

From the looks of the shoes, I probably had brakes on no more than one or two wheels for many years. Whatever I do will be an improvement.

I do appreciate the responses.

Thanks,

Gary

i send all mine out for re-sleeving. cheaper than new and will last longer than new and easier to find than new. i took the cheap way five years ago and honed a m/c now its leaked for the last time. i sent it out. i just got to the point that i wasnt going to f**k around anymore. because where i live i need good brakes.

I have brought mine to a local machine shop and put them on a sunnen rigid hone. I try to keep it down to .005", but have gone to about .010". They charge me $15-20 to hone 4 wheel cylinders and the master cylinder. Keep in mind that the surface needs to be smooth where the seals ride. Not necessarily in the center or where the cups ride. As long as you have good seal contact in the outer parts wheel cylinder bore, you can have pits in the center of the bore.

Note: Resleeving and or replacement is always a better choice. Safety should always be the main concern. If you question whether honing is appropriate or safe....replace the wheel cylinders and master cylinders. Don't forget the flexible lines and clean out any steel lines if you reuse them. Steel lines are cheap.

Again, good sound comments, and I appreciate them. It is, no doubt, better to replace or re-sleeve. I cannot argue that point, but...I am frugal, and I am curious. I know that some may rally against me for this, but I also think that we are a society gone awry in the way of "absolute safety" at every turn. There is no "absolute" when it comes to safety...come to think of it, with much of anything.

I do remember once querying my brother about an over-loaded hitch, and the possibilityh that it might break. He responded, "they always bend before they break." He had a point, albeit a bit crude. He has passed on, but not from busted mechanics.

Wheel cylinders fail one at a time. The master cylinder is another issue. The lose of the shoes is a gamble.

What I was trying to learn was just how far people have pushed them. I am up to 10 thousandths.

Thanks,

Gary

You have to remember with these old brake systems is that if one wheel cylinder fails, the whole brake system fails because there is no dual master cylinder.

That is why the safety issue is brought up so much when these old brake systems are talked about. Today's traffic and speeds add a new dimension to safety issues that were not present 50-60 years ago. Also, safety may be over blown for you, but there are a lot of idiots out there who still need constant reminders...and most of them share the road with you.

Builder,

Very succintly put, and one issue that I have not considered; dual v single.

Not to worry, though, I drive a Freightliner because I found a common pickup too small for the average 1/5 wheel. I tend to over-kill.

I am at about 15 thousandths over on the master, so it's time for plan "B." I will check with the local machine shops as to the price of relining. I will try to locate the lining material, and consider doing it myself. Much to ponder, but the cylinders will work.

I suspect these cylinders have all been honed now maybe three times, and at least one is a replacement. Interestingly, the replacement is the closest to specs.

Anyone know where to get liners, and does anyone know the thickness of materials used to re-line?

Gary

If you are realy frugle you can bore the wheel cylinders to the next size rubber cup and turn new pistons from new stock. I did this on a 46 1.5 ton 5 yrs ago with no problems. I made a simple jig to hold them bored and honed them on a Bridgeport mill. All four cylinders and pistons were turned in one afternoon. Total parts cost was about $10 for new rubber cup and piston stock.

ttodd,

I had considered what you suggest, but I don't have a bridgeport. I do have a small lathe, but need a lot of learning. No matter, you all won't have to dodge old chev pickups. I ordered fronts from Napa for about $40.46 each delivered, and rears from Advance Auto for about $56.09 each delivered. It's a lot of cash, but I checked three places in Medford, Oregon, and none re-line. All ship out. One place implied that cost of labor and liability is the reason...and that is what's wrong with the entire economy.

I still have not decided what to do with the master cylinder. As it is much more spendy than the others, I may do as you suggest, and hone to the next size, and install larger cups. It's 1 1/4" from the git-go, though, so finding the right cups might be a chore.

Enough, already. I will ponder it...later.

Thanks to all.

Gary

One advantage to over-boring the MC is you'll push more fluid & have more oomph to the brakes. As long as the new seals fit properly and dont flip over anyway.
I would look around and try to find any local small machine shops or hobby machinists, could get it sleeved with stainless at a reasonable price.
Another option is to look for other MC's form later years that would bolt on or adapt easily.

As for that whole safety issue, singe circut brakes are a real risk if you half-arse anything. One part poos, the whole system poos.
The idea of some cell-tard pulling out in front of me (happens a lot, even in my monster of a bolt) stomping the brakes, and having my foot hit the deck with no resistance is NOT on my list of favorite activities. Been there, pucker factor 12 engaged and it took me an hour to pull my shorts back out. Thank God for functional shaft brakes!

Freq,

I had considered the idea that there would be more horse power on the MC if over-bored...which means the wheel cylinders better be OK.

I have had, on three memorable occasions, complete brake failure and, yes, it is a bit alarming. I will avoid that.

I have also considered other brake cylinders, but most used would need a kit, and most new are almost as much as the correct cylinder. Besides, a lot are one inch, and the correct unit is 1 1/4 inch...more push.

If I can find the right material, a may make a try at relining it, myself. Patience, mule, patience. I have a couple more stores in town to poke around. They may have it.

ive used http://www.brakeplace.com/ numerous times for sleeving wheel cylinders. he has a M/C from the ashton as we speak. reasonably priced and a quick turn around. i have no regrets. actually they look so good when they come back that their too nice to put back on the truck. if you call ask for rob anderson

51,

I will dig into the web site.

Thanks,

Gary