The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts 1954 6400 utility

Probably depends upon the state you reside in but I always thought it was illegal to buy or use a title from another vehicle. Not inferring that you are doing anything improper but just noting my own curiosity about it.

You're just selling the "historical document for collecting purposes" right?

People often do and get away with things that are not legal.

In the state I live in buying or selling a title without the correct vehicle is against the law. Likely the law in other states is similar.

Hmmmm- - - - -so if I steal your truck, haul it to another state, buy somebody else's title, and use it to get a fresh title and registration, does that sound like it's legal? That's basically why the title law was passed in most states to begin with.

A few wrecking yard owners I know of were taking that process to extremes, cutting a section of the dashboard containing the VIN number out of a car that was ready to go to the crusher, and selling it, and the corresponding title to body shops that were in the business of recycling stolen cars. With a little creative welding, a modified car with a legal-appearing VIN that matched the bogus title could be produced.
Jerry

I agree with Hotrod Lincoln. I also think that stovebolt should remove themselves completely from this practice and not allow any title sales to be advertised on the site. There will still be ways to get around it but the liability would be gone.

I agree. Why don't you suggest that to John and Peg.

I'm hearing things on other boards that suggest several states are tightening up on title/VIN issues and things that people got away with in the past may start catching up with current owners over the next few years.

My own feeling is that playing fast and loose with titling is going to bring down some heavy handed rules on our hobby so we need to self-police to help people honor the rules as much as we can.

I've been called some unkind things on the HAMB because I keep quoting the rules...

Sorry John, I did not intend to pick on you and should have spoke up sooner and more often in other posts too. The practice of selling the paper on a vehicle without the vehicle is illegal in every state I have ever lived in. I have never lived in S.C. though. You should check with the state to make sure you don't get into any trouble.

Nobody's attacking you- - - -we're just pointing out the reason a clear, legal title protects everyone involved. There are procedures for re-titling vehicles built up from salvaged parts, or tracking down the legal ownership of vehicles that have a murky pedigree. It's better to jump through a few hoops on the front end than risk the possibility of someone showing up on your doorstep with a legal title and trying to take possession of a truck you've spent hundreds of hours, and thousands of dollars restoring.

I've run body shops in the past, and the horror stories of trying to legally title a pieced-together vehicle aren't just urban legends. I took possession of a pretty nice Buick on a mechanic's lien after an owner abandoned the vehicle following a big wreck repair, and then I fought the guy's insurance company to a standstill when they refused to pay the bill, but tried to take possession of the car. I used it as a loaner for customers I thought to be trustworthy while I repaired their cars. One of those "trustworthy" customers stole the car, and the next time I heard about it, it was four states away on the scene of a murder, and my former customer was the prime suspect! Oh, BTW, it had a blown-up engine, too! I never did get it back!
Jerry

John I don't recall seeing any posts about you buying a title, and if it happened in the swap meet I rarely pay attention to anything there.

Please don't take anything I've said as intended to be an attack on you. This is becoming an increasing problem and my comments are aimed at making sure people are aware that there are rules, this kind of practice is after counter to those rules, and if we as a community don't start discouraging it, we risk much harsher enforcement from law enforcement.

I was particularly annoyed at the 'historical documents' comment someone else made because that is specifically illegal in most states and trying to use it as a defense won't help you.

The various state versions of this law that I've read all include an intent to commit fraud phrase. You may be safe based on intent, though even with technically innocent buyers and sellers I still fear a change in enforcement that will not be pleasant for the car and truck enthusiast community as a whole.

There are both state and federal laws governing these issues. You might want to research both before trying to sell a title.

Who did you buy the title from? They need set straight too. Maybe they are a true stovebolter and will refund at least some of the money.

Okay it wasn't hard to find.

Since it appears he has the cab why not get that from him too?

That should remove the legal questions around this transaction....

And I think he is a straight-up guy. Talk to him about the problem if you haven't already.