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#536064 05/08/2009 10:29 PM
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I was looking at the sticker in the glovebox of my '71 to check out the options the truck came with. One caught my attention. It listed a steering stabilizer. Right now the truck does not have a steering stabilizer on it, nor does it really need it since it handles fine. I was wondering why it would have come from the factory that way. Perhaps it was part of the heavy duty package? This truck did come with heavy duty front and rear springs, heavy duty shocks, and the auxillary leaf spring. That's the only thing I could thing of. Any ideas?


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I quess it is refering to an anti-sway bar. I put one on my 70 because it didn't come with one & it really made it drive a lot better.


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You know, I never thought about that. That makes a heck of a lot more sense!


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steering stablizer reduce bump steer dramticly ever hit a bump that just yanks the wheel out of your hands well thats what the stabalizers do the stop that


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I have hit lots of bumps in my 51 1 Ton and I have never had that experience.


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a steering stabilizer wont correct bump steer, but will help absorb the "shock" all the front end components take while driving on the roads.
i installed one in my 57 and didnt really "feel" a difference, but it will save my king pins, tie rods, etc, making them last longer.

leonard


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Steering Stabalizers help prevent the wear & tare caused by wheel shimmy, mainly used on 4 wheel drive trucks. especially if large oversize tires are used. The bigger the tire, the more of a chance of getting a shake in the front end and more wear & tare on your front end parts.

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As it turns out, in this case I'm an idiot wink. It was referring to the sway bar. The nomenclature will get ya' every time. Whenever I hear stabilizer I always think something other than "sway bar". Oh well, live and learn, right?

On the subject of steering stabilizers... My dad has a '63 K10 that had to have one installed on it. At the time the front suspension and steering components were all in great shape but you still couldn't drive the thing in a straight line past 45 mph because of the shimmy. The stabilizer eliminated that.


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Normally, without a sway bar when the car or truck corners, the weight of the chassis
shifts toward the outside of the turn compressing the springs on that side. The
springs on the inside generally extend a little, or do nothing. Relatively to the
chassis itself, it appears that the outside suspension compresses and the inside doesn't.

A sway bar couples the suspensions on each side to each other, *AND* relative
to the chassis. If you could put the truck up on a lift and actually compress
the suspension on one side by hand, then a sway bar makes the compression of one
side also try to compress the suspension on the other. Ok.. it's still not
really obvious why that's useful so I'll say the same thing a different way.

A sway bar effectively increases the spring rate on whichever side
is compressed the MOST. If the sway bar were absolutely solid with no
twist so there's a 100% coupling between each side then
an attempt to compress one spring actually becomes an attempt to
compress both springs. It doubles the spring rate. If the bar has some
twist, then it may only increase the spring rate by say 50% on whichever side
is compressed the most.

So you're driving down the road and you go over
a bump that goes across the entire lane. The sway bar
does nothing. Both sides compress normally. You go around a
corner and the chassis starts to lean and compress the outside
suspension and now it's as though you have a bigger spring
out there, so the vehicle remains more level. That's the good part.
Here's the bad part. You hit a bump with only one side, and it
behaves the same way, as though you have a stiffer spring,
so you feel uneven bumps more. You feel it crossing anything
diagonally as well, such as coming into or out of a parking lot
or driveway curb.

That's all the simple "How does a sway bar work?" part.
The real tricky one is.. "What does a sway bar do?"
1. We know it keeps your rig more level. So what? Limiting the lean of
the body is good because it means that when you take a quick set into
a turn, that the body isn't still moving sideways after the tires at their
limits. Otherwise you turn in quickly, the tires grip, then the body finally finishes
leaning, when it stops, the tires loose grip. This is especially noticable in most
moto-cross type cars in the slalom where you lean one way then the other and so forth.

2. It limits camber changes. The camber is the angle that the tire leans in or out at the top
relative to the chassis of the vehicle. The camber directly impacts the angle at which the tire
cross section meets the road and thus controls lateral grip. That swing
up into positive camber is BAD. At that point the chassis is already leaned over so the
tire may be starting to roll onto its sidewall. Changing the camber even more positive
just is nasty. A big sway bar will prevent the body roll in the first place, and
prevent the suspension compression on the outside which causes the positive camber
change relative to the chassis.

3. Transfer lateral grip from one end of the rig to the other.
This one is a real trick to understand, but racers exploit this EVERY time they go
on the track. Their spring rates are often so high, the vehicles so low, and their
suspension travel so little, that the whole camber and body lean problem is already
a non-issue. The vehicle doesn't lean much with 500 lb springs. They use their bars
to change the balance of the rig. Here's the simple rules first.
A big bar on the front, increases rear lateral and motive traction.
A big bar on the rear, increases front lateral and motive traction.
The applications. If the vehicle is understeering, decrease front bar size, or increase
rear bar size. This increases front lateral grip and decreases rear lateral grip
giving the car a more neutral to oversteer feel. Reverse the process for
too much oversteer.
I mentioned motive grip. That's the neat one. Let's say your RWD car/truck is handling ok, but
everytime you get into a corner hard and get on the gas the rear inside tire breaks loose
and spins. You can't accelerate out of the turn. You can go around the turn quite
quickly, but you can't accelerate out, and the guy with traction hooks up and
passes you halfway down the next straight because he came out of the turn going 3-4mph faster.
The reason you're losing the traction at the inside rear, is usually because the rear bar is too big.
As the rear outside suspension compresses, it's actually causing the rear inside suspension to
compress as well (because the bar couples the sides.. remember where we started), and that
decreases the weight on the rear inside tire.
First thing. Decrease size of rear bar. That decouples the sides a bit, let's the inside tire press
down on the road more and thus not spin when you're on the gas. i built my rear sway bar
from what I believe is a toyota or nissan truck. It would be expensive cry and a tricky job
to have to re-do it as discribed above so we're kinda stuck. something IS better than nothing in our case.
OK. Most of the bolt vendors have a set, front/rear sway bar set up for our trucks
[1/2 & 3/4 ton usually] as stock buys. some like, fla54chevy3100
http://community.webshots.com/user/Fla54Chevy3100 Dave, has
used a camaro one on the rear, it's your call ohwell

Here's where it gets really tricky.
this is pretty tough to do w/ our bolts for the front end change...
If decreasing the size of the rear bar doesn't help enough the next thing you do is
increase the size of the front bar. When the outside front compresses in a corner, it
causes the inside front to compress and may actually lift that tire completely off the
ground. The truck is now sitting on 3 tires and guess where the weight that was on
the inside front goes? Outside front? Some of it. The rest goes to the inside rear
where we need more grip. The total weight of the vehicle hasn't changed. It's just been
redistributed, and a sway bar at one end, actually transfered weight to the other
end of the vehicle.
http://www.classicperform.com/tech_articles/SwayBarChevyTruck/SwayBarChevyTruck.htm
`````````````
Steering stabilizers are essentially a shock absorber for your steering system. They are highly recommended
for all vehicles with over-sized tires, a winch or snow plow to increase control and handling. Stabilizers
dampen out wheel shimmy dance ... as Leonard said above, and help prevent the steering wheel from being jerked out of
your hands in rough terrain or when a road hazard is struck by the front wheels. A steering stabilizer is
a proven safety device in the event of a blow out. gas springs are used and act as a shock. they are cylinders that look and act similar to
a syringe. Within the cylinder is a piston, which works to compress
the gas and provide a force to aid in keeping the wheels straight. Oil is circulated
around the piston to keep the
area between the piston and the cylinder wall well-lubricated and to allow smooth movement.

Doing so will give your steering components longer life, save you money on expensive repairs
and maybe even prevent a little driver fatigue on the highway since you won't be fighting the steering
wheel to keep your vehicle on the road.
again i believe 54flachevy3100 has some great shots as does stoveblot link .
above all make sure your suspension is up to par and all complnants are working smooth
do your king pins and keep them lubed
rear about::
http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/draglink_adjustable.htmlhope this helps...
http://www.classicperform.com/tech_articles/Tie-Rod-Upgrade/Tie-Rod-Upgrade.htm

now hop in, key on & go for-a ride yahoo

Last edited by carolines truck; 05/19/2009 5:59 AM.

Jim & Caroline
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Thanks, great explanation!


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Czechman #538495 05/17/2009 6:06 AM
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Sway bars are also particularly good in Air spring set-ups.
When cornering air is pumped from one side to the other and inflates the uncompressed side,this actually accentuates body roll! Sway bars help to reduce this.
This happens when you have the left and right 'bags' linked on the same axle.
In an ideal world you would have each bag individually controlled,whereas most(basic) systems control front and rear axles.
I'm planning on this arrangement on mine, 'coz I'm cheap! wink
Thanks for the info Jim,it makes things a little easier to understand for 'us' dummies! grin


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Originally Posted by carolines truck
Normally, without a sway bar when the car or truck corners the weight of the chassis
shifts toward the outside of the turn compressing the springs on that side. The
springs on the inside generally extend a little, or do nothing. Relatively to the
chassis itself, it appears that the outside suspension compresses and the inside doesn't.

A sway bar couples the suspensions on each side to each other, *AND* relative
to the chassis. If you could put the truck up on a lift and actually compress
the suspension on one side by hand, then a sway bar makes the compression of one
side also try to compress the suspension on the other. Ok.. it's still not
really obvious why that's useful so I'll say the same thing a different way.

A sway bar effectively increases the spring rate on whichever side
is compressed the MOST. If the sway bar were absolutely solid with no
twist so there's a 100% coupling between each side then
an attempt to compress one spring actually becomes an attempt to
compress both springs. It doubles the spring rate. If the bar has some
twist, then it may only increase the spring rate by say 50% on whichever side
is compressed the most.

So you're driving down the road and you go over
a bump that goes across the entire lane. The sway bar
does nothing. Both sides compress normally. You go around a
corner and the chassis starts to lean and compress the outside
suspension and now it's as though you have a bigger spring
out there, so the vehicle remains more level. That's the good part.
Here's the bad part. You hit a bump with only one side, and it
behaves the same way, as though you have a stiffer spring,
so you feel uneven bumps more. You feel it crossing anything
diagonally as well, such as coming into or out of a parking lot
or driveway curb.

That's all the simple "How does a sway bar work?" part.
The real tricky one is.. "What does a sway bar do?"
1. We know it keeps your rig more level. So what? Limiting the lean of
the body is good because it means that when you take a quick set into
a turn, that the body isn't still moving sideways after the tires at their
limits. Otherwise you turn in quickly, the tires grip, then the body finally finishes
leaning, when it stops, the tires loose grip. This is especially noticable in most
moto-cross type cars in the slalom where you lean one way then the other and so forth.

2. It limits camber changes. The camber is the angle that the tire leans in or out at the top
relative to the chassis of the vehicle. The camber directly impacts the angle at which the tire
cross section meets the road and thus controls lateral grip. That swing
up into positive camber is BAD. At that point the chassis is already leaned over so the
tire may be starting to roll onto its sidewall. Changing the camber even more positive
just just nasty. A big sway bar will prevent the body roll in the first place, and
prevent the suspension compression on the outside which causes the positive camber
change relative to the chassis.

3. Transfer lateral grip from one end of the rig to the other.
This one is a real trick to understand, but racers exploit this EVERY time they go
on the track. Their spring rates are often so high, the cars so low, and their
suspension travel so little, that the whole camber and body lean problem is already
a non-issue. The car doesn't lean much with 500 lb springs. They use their bars
to change the balance of the car. Here's the simple rules first.
A big bar on the front, increases rear lateral and motive traction.
A big bar on the rear, increases front lateral and motive traction.
The applications. If the car is understeering, decrease front bar size, or increase
rear bar size. This increases front lateral grip and decreases rear lateral grip
giving the car a more neutral to oversteer feel. Reverse the process for
too much oversteer.
I mentioned motive grip. That's the neat one. Let's say your RWD car/truck is handling ok, but
everytime you get into a corner hard and get on the gas the rear inside tire breaks loose
and spins. You can't accelerate out of the turn. You can go around the turn quite
quickly, but you can't accelerate out, and the guy with traction hooks up and
passes you halfway down the next straight because he came out of the turn going 3-4mph faster.
The reason you're losing the traction at the inside rear, is usually because the rear bar is too big.
As the rear outside suspension compresses, it's actually causing the rear inside suspension to
compress as well (because the bar couples the sides.. remember where we started), and that
decreases the weight on the rear inside tire.
First thing. Decrease size of rear bar. That decouples the sides a bit, let's the inside tire press
down on the road more and thus not spin when you're on the gas. i built my rear sway bar
from what i believe is a toyota or nissan truck. It would be expensive and a tricky job
to have to re-do it.

Here's where it gets really tricky.
this is pretty tough to do w/ our bolts for the front end change...
If decreasing the size of the rear bar doesn't help enough the next thing you do is
increase the size of the front bar. When the outside front compresses in a corner, it
causes the inside front to compress and may actually lift that tire completely off the
ground. The truck is now sitting on 3 tires and guess where the weight that was on
the inside front goes? Outside front? Some of it. The rest goes to the inside rear
where we need more grip. The total weight of the vehicle hasn't changed. It's just been
redistributed, and a sway bar at one end, actually transfered weight to the other
end of the vehicle.



Man.... You couldn't be more right ! Before I installed the Front and Rear Sway bars I thought... I just invested thousands of dollars in a fuel injected ICE CREAM TRUCK and I was ready to sell it !! It handled horrible !! I talked to my buddy Jim ( BIG CHEVY 3600 ) and he told me about where he got his sway bars so I got a set and installed them and WOW what a difference !
Thanks Jim

Last edited by cletis; 05/17/2009 4:04 PM. Reason: language

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1Bad51 #538660 05/17/2009 9:20 PM
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Jim & Caroline
The highway is for gamblers, better use your good sense."
Gooday-that's my 1¢ answer due to the lousy economy ~ cause I ain't got - no . mo . doe

Every Shaver | Now Can Snore | Six More Minutes | Than Before ... | Half A Pound for Half a Dollar | Spread On Thin | Above the Collar || BURMA-SHAVE
Czechman #538662 05/17/2009 9:31 PM
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Well written Bear, but I hope he understand difference between a steering stabilizer and a sway bar.

gazim #538665 05/17/2009 9:57 PM
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Redryder pix
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Thanks Jim! thumbs_up


1950 Chevy Advance Design 3100 in Scotland
In the Stovebolt Gallery
More pix on Flickr.
I've definately got this truck thing in my blood ... my DNA sequence has torque settings
"Of all the small nations of this earth,perhaps only the ancient Greeks surpass the Scots in their contribution to mankind" Winston Churchill.
jockbolter50 #538983 05/18/2009 9:19 PM
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I have a suspicion that some people read the title and misred my original question...lol... That's okay, though. There is a wealth of excellent information in this thread because of it. Jim, that is without a doubt the best explanation of sway bars that I have ever read. I already knew all about sway bars, but I don't think I've ever seen an explanation that was that easy to understand.


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''''Steering stabilizer - why?''''''
'''I quess it is refering to an anti-sway bar. I put one on my 70 because it didn't come with one & it really made it drive a lot better.'''''








i DID READ your original querrie.

i DO understand that not only the thread starter wants info... for every one person who does write,
there are in this case,, 431 have started to read this or let's just say 40% who got this far,
It's not about me gettin' it or you. somebody didn't already
'''''' You know, I never thought about that. That makes a heck of a lot more sense! '''''' ohwell
it's about 8K+ who haven't yet been to it but may ... it's about all of us ... learning ...
This will get archived and maybe a few more will learn [or NOT] from reading it.
One good question begins, another gets answered, because they ARE ALL CONNECTED. threads
can go anywhere. sit, read & learn or hit the delete button. computerdeath

I've been here as a bolter a good while and i only hope I can help as
many folks w/ their projects as who have overwhelmingly provided help to me
smile THAT I AM SO THANKFUL FOR ...... everyone dance

as Utah Phillips used to say ...'' if we all do just a little bit to help. we'll ALL get by just fine.''





'Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinkin' badges!'







........................ n LOL laalaa





Last edited by carolines truck; 05/19/2009 5:50 AM.

Jim & Caroline
The highway is for gamblers, better use your good sense."
Gooday-that's my 1¢ answer due to the lousy economy ~ cause I ain't got - no . mo . doe

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Bears63,

We've all learned a lot about sway bars (but why would they not be called "anti-sway" bars?) and how they differ from steering stabilizers (if we did not know that already). A very good thing.

Nonetheless, in earlier years (47-55, at least) GM installed a "stabilizer" on the front ends/suspensions of some (if not all) 47-55 Advance-Design 1/2 ton panel-body trucks. During those years (at least), what GM was calling a "stabilizer" (not a "steering" stabilizer, mind you) was what is described above as a sway bar.

Even though I know nothing about 1963 (or 70/71) trucks, your use of "stabilizer" in the title did not confuse me (GM had already done that).

Tim


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Jim, I understand your point entirely. The whole idea of a forum is to benefit the entire community with the knowledge. I was just surprised after not dropping by for a couple days to see how much info had been posted to the thread. I really appreciate the fact that you took the time to post that excellent information about sway bars, that is a fantastic and very thorough explanation. I am truly thankful that you are willing to share information like that with me and everyone else. thumbs_up

Tim, what happened in the case of this truck is that GM did confuse me really well. The option list had a line for a "front stabilizer" and my brain was thinking "steering stabilizer" dang. Of course I was also thinking that by '71 the sway bars were pretty much standard on trucks, but apparently not. I didn't know that either.


1963 Chevy C20 Longbed Stepside
1978 Chevy K30 Custom Deluxe

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