The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Just bought a Holley/Webber 2 bbl

Hey folks. I just ordered a rebuilt Holley/Webber 2 bbl carb from Langdon's Stovebolt. Apparently, it has a primary and a secondary. It flows 230 cfm with the secondary open and slightly less than a Rochester 1bbl with just the primary open. It's supposed to offer better torque than a Rochester 1bbl, as well as much better "top end" performance and far superior idle and accelerator pump circuits.

Just to try it out on the stock manifold, I also bought Langdon's 2-1 bbl adapter. But it doesn't look like I can take advantage of the full cfm potential of the 2 barrels with that funnel under it.

Right now, I'm more concerned with improving the drivability of the 235 by getting rid of the horrible Rochester.

Has anybody else tried the Holley/Webber 2 bbl? If so, what do you think about that carb? Any tips?

I have two Holley/Webbers on a 235 and have good luck with them. Mileage is about 15 mph. with no problems. I also use the adapters from Langdon's.

Lots of people have them. Use the search feature to look for them and you'll find lots of posts. A pretty common question here actually.

In my experience the Holley/Weber 5200 is a better carb than the rochester in every way. To me it is cold starting that really shines. If you are used to those long warm ups thast most rochesters require, you will be VERY HAPPY with the H/W 5200. I don't know if you've had problems with a dead spot just off an idle with a rochester B, but all the monojets I've seen had that problem, but the H/W 5200 is very smooth. I think you're going to be happy, but do not expect a big performance gain. You'll see some, but the biggest improvements are cold starting, and all around drivability.

Boo

Would you guys reccomend dual Holley 2 bbl over a 4 bbl carb?
So many choices...

Well, if you use a 4 barrel carb, you might want to use something kind of small like the Holley 450 cfm. The two Holley/Webber carbs at 230 cfm each add up to 460 cfm, so the flow is about the same, theoretically.

What you might notice with two carbs though is that each carb is spaced out more so that you probably have a little bit more of an even flow of air/fuel mixture to each cylinder, whereas the single 4 barrel would still tend to make the center cylinders run rich and the outer cylinders run lean.

My altitude is very high though, (about 5800 feet) so I'm thinking that for me, twin carbs would be overcarburetion. If I were at lower altitude, I'd probably prefer the twin carbs.

How about the 2 to 1 adapter and holly carb for a 292? I have heard that its better all around and maybe even another mpg. Anyone running that set up on a stock intake/exhaust?

That's the set up I originally thought of using. I think it would be fine for a larger 292. I was just concerned about over-carbureting my smaller 235.

Two barrel cfm is measured differently than 4 barrel cfm. There is a conversion factor, I just don't recall what or where it is.

The necked-down adapter will help increase torque at the bottom end. As long as it doesn't go down too much, it won't hurt the top end. My only problem with Tom's adapter is that it's ugly.

The dual twos work reasonable well, one isn't enough, but it is better than the rochester. My friend has them on his hot 261, he thinks he doesn't have enough carb. Thinking about going with dual rochester 2Gs.
[img]http://www.myoldtruck.com/gallery/files/2/3/8/Engineleft.jpg[/img]

The H/W 5200 is probably not enough carb for a 292. But it would probably be an improvment over a monojet. Many 292's have had remans put on, and they are often the wrong carb. Lots of 292's ended up with the smaller carb that came on the 230 and 250. I have one of the larger bore monojets that came on a 292 that i got by accident. Parts people usually do not know or care about the difference. when you order a new reman they just throw the nearest one in a box and hand it over. That's how lots of 292's ended up with the smaller carbs, and that is how I ended up with a larger one for my 250. Once you get the motor warm it works great except for that stinking dead spot just off an idle. I've said this before, but I'll say it again. Before my father passed I ask him how to get rid of that monojet stumbling, and he said; "Throw the darn thing away, and buy a carburetor!"

Carb King has mentioned several carter singles that work good on 250 and 292 sixes, but I don't recall the details. However, I would think that if you're willing to spring for the manifold, a small 4 barrel is the way to go with a 292.

Just Ramblin'
Boo

Thanks boo. My carb is a bit different and a bit odd since my engine came from an inliner who removed it from a C50 dump truck. It has kind of an industrial carb on it. I'd be willing to bet it was one of the larger ones.

Fred, lovley setup, I like the gauges in the engine compartment.I yust orderd 2 "Filter King" gas filters with build in fuel pressure regulator.
Thea look verry vintage and each of my H/W gets his own.

[img]http://www.mini-doctor.de/thumbnail.asp?FileName=FK67&Size=230[/img]

Now I´m looking for small fuel pressure gauges that i can fit between the filter/regulator and the carb so I can fine tune each of them.

If you do a setup with the H/W carbs, make sure to get two identical carbs. Sounds od, but they where made for a zillion applications and even if they look the same from outside, open them and check if all the little plugs, holes, jets are the same.

Bin there, done that :rolleyes:

Frank

Hey, do H/W carbs take standard Holley jets? I'm pretty sure mine will be too rich for my high altitude and I'll have to work on the jetting.

Yeah, if I was at lower altitude, I'd definitely get the dual carb set up. But I'll try the single carb first, just because of my concerns about the thin air.

That pic of the dual carb I-6 with the headers is really cool. I am curious, how does it run? Does that set up make significantly better power, and can you estimate what kind of power it's making compared to stock? Did you get a more modern camshaft grind in it to take advantage of the improvements?

Seems like everyone does it differently from the photo. With exactly the same setup my carbs are rotated 90 counterclockwise. I installed them to make the linkage setup as easy as I could. I've seen them three different ways now. Hmmmm.

Engine is a 261 bored 60 over and balanced. Head shaved and professionally ported. Cam is fairly hot, it's what we used to call a full race. Unilite dizzy with MSD-6 spark box.

Initially had dual rochester ones, couldn't get it to idle below 1,000 rpm. When we put on the H/Ws, got the idle down to 550 rpm. The MSD helped smooth out the lumpy idle. Steve estimated it to have about 230 hp, I think he's low.

Truck has 3.73 gears and a Saginaw 4 speed. He has done burnouts into 4th gear. He also peaked out his tach at 6,000 rpm.

WOW!!!!

Okay, I don't know if you care to share, but I'm curious. How much did that motor cost to build up? If you don't want to say, that's okay.

But I am comparing the cost to hotrod a stovebolt engine to the cost of a V8 build, and I'd say the 406 I'm looking at building is going to run me about 6 grand total.

Your friend is figuring almost 1 hp/ci, and it's a cautious estimate. It is the torque, however, that's probably really impressive. It revs to 6000, but I wonder what rpm the hp peaks at? If it's fairly low, that would explain the low number. But you might still be packing 500+ lb-ft, even if hp is around 230.

What's your compression ratio?

Okay anyway...I received my carburetor and it looks really good. I ended up installing it with the fuel bowl facing the passenger side of the truck to make the fuel connection and water connections the easiest. I really don't think my little 235 will be able to accelerate or handle good enough to cause fuel to slosh away from the jets.

I'll have to make my own throttle cable and my own modification for the K&N 10" filter that I want to use. Then test drive and see if it needs rejetting.

Do these take standard Holley jets? Or something unique?

I modified a 2"x10" K&N top breather filter and that works nicely. But I am having a heck of a time getting the throttle to work. It does run very well, but using a throttle cable just doesn't interface well with the pushrod and bellcrank method the truck has!!!

I've contacted Tom Langdon and will be buying his throttle linkage kit. For only $35, it isn't worth the brain damage to try to make something else work.

If anyone has any other ideas, let me know.

Has anyone used the Carter-Weber 2bbl carbs that Langdon sells? I have a 2x1 Offenhauser setup I am going to use on a 261 bored 0.030" over with a Howard's M4F cam and SM420 4spd tranny. I have a couple of Rochester 1bbl's that came with the intake, but I am leary of using them with all the problems I have heard/read about them. What type/model # carb do you folks think will work w/ my setup?

I have seen some threads on that in the past. Seems like people were having trouble tuning those carbs and not having the tech support from Tom Langdon that they wanted. However, he has been great at getting ahold of me and helping out.

According to Tom, the Holley/Webber has a higher cfm rating than the Carter/Webber versions. I felt the 235 was being starved, which is why I wanted the Holley/Webber. However, the benefits are limited with the funnel-type adapter that you have to use. I think if I really like this carb, I might alter the intake to accept the entire carb rather than use the funnel adapters. That way, the benefits of all the higher cfm can be realized.

Operation is DEFINITELY better than the Rochester 1bbl, however.

Got it going. I modified a cable to work, for now, but I'll put the permanent rod and bellcrank kit on when I get it. It runs so much better with this carb. Definitely an improvement.

I wish it increased torque though...still very weak for this size truck.

Well, I've got good news. The new throttle linkage kit was excellent, and it runs noticeably better than the 1 bbl Rochester.

Then I installed a Pertronix kit on it, and with electronic ignition, the 235 has never run so well.

The truck's not quite so painfully slow anymore. It can finally get out of its own way...well better anyway.