The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop New Radiator a piece of junk

I was told years ago that these restoration projects never really end and I'm slowly becoming a true believer. With less that 600 miles on the odometer the "New" radiator, that I purchased from one of my favorite vendors, cracked where the return goose neck is soldered to the tank. Just prior to this failure I had noticed that the left mounting strap had parted ways with the radiator tank top.

I dropped it off at the local radiator shop for repair and returned 3 hours later for a lesson in cheap ($331 + Shipping) radiators. The shop owner said that the radiator had some of the thinnest metal he had ever seen in the tank and that the core was basically crap. He said that he re-soldered the neck and found that there was almost no solder at all where the mounting strap was supposed to be attached to the tank. He went on to tell me that even had he removed the tank from the core and built up the inside of the neck with silver solder it wouldn't have been worth the cost as the tank metal was so thin and it would fail again in short order. Although dimensionally and aesthetically correct the radiator is basically a piece of junk.

He asked what pressure cap I was running (4 psi) and told me that even so the radiator was so flimsy that the resulting constant expansion and contraction would certainly cause another failure. The repair was $40 and since I had lost the coolant another $30 bucks or so there. So now I'm into this piece of junk for 400 bucks and change. This POS is advertised as "high quality all copper original factory type. These new units are an excellent 3 row style and use [b]original GM tanks."[/b] Although I purchased this radiator at the beginning of my "recent" restoration (2 years ago) I nevertheless will contact the vendor next week as the radiator certainly isn't what it was billed as, and couldn't even make it 500 miles down the road before complete failure. I find it hard to believe that GM would have built something this thin "originally."

The shop owner suggested that I contact "Walker" radiators to obtain a reliable copper core radiator, but that I would have to be willing to pay $550 or so. I was too befuddled to let him know that the piece of new junk he just repaired was already pushing that figure. I stopped at the local gun shop prior to returning home and looked at some AK 47's with a mind to punch holes in this thing.

After getting home I checked Walker Radiator Works, Inc to learn that "America's # 1 radiator" runs $745 plus shipping! Holy cow! Talking about under water and leaking cash...makes me want to buy the AK instead!

Has anyone dealt with Walker? I wonder if my Uncle Sam will bail me out for bad investments?

Don -- slightly overheated and fixing to jump into the pool to cool down.

Don, I want to reply but can't think of a darn thing to say to you except I think we have all been at your point at some time or the other. It fits right in there with the cowl panels and chrome repop stuff. The [censored] of it all is you paid a darn good price and should have gotten a good radiator and not some piece of $hit that is only worth $25......for scrap.

If you are not opposed to an aluminum one have look at a Griffin Radiator. They are not cheap either, but I think a good bit less than the Walker one.
http://www.griffinrad.com/
I don't have any personal experience with them, but I have never heard anything bad about their products. I did call and ask a few questions, and they seem very helpful and friendly. I'll most likely be buying one for my 48 when the original gives up, or can't do the job.

Grigg

I have a Walker Cobra and Walker is touted to be the best, expensive but the best. I went to school in Memphis and a friend of mine worked there. I use to hang around the place and watch the process. When I was ready to buy my radiator for this truck I figured I knew the quality of Walker and I'm not much of a gambler.

I have a Griffen Radiator for my truck and I am not that impressed with it. The core when shipped was filled liquid foam around it and I had to use a radiator comb to straighten some of the fins out. The tanks are pressed and the press leaves marks on the tanks when they are formed up. I also gave them demintions on the size and where I wanted the filler neck to be, they put it off center instead in the middle like I wanted which is where the orginal was. The radiator was $690.00 and now I here they are in the $700.00 + range. I would look in to a Be - Cool rad. as they hand formed the tanks and not stamped out like Griffen or any of the good Aluminum Radiator Companys that do quality work.
62Blue
Don

This is the kind of feedback I need and will wait for a few others to give input. Interestingly, it was over ten years ago when what I think was the original radiator blew it's core and I parked the truck after driving it for 7 years or so.

Last night I was telling a friend of mine about radiator prices and he told me that his brother just had 14 removed and stolen from a collection of old vehicles on his property. Its hard to believe that radiators are now being stolen for their copper.

Thanks for the input as always,

Don

Don, I really don't want to make you any madder, but it's my experience that a good radiator shop,like yours, would recore your original for less then you've paid now.

Life's a bummer some times, but it's healthier to let your frustration go.

This is also a lesson to everyone about buying stuff way in advance of when you'll need it. You get 30 days to return things in most cases so if you buy way in advance you are at a distinct disadvantage if it proves defective.

Sorry for your problem & aggravation with the radiator, but you just saved me a truck load of problems. I was going to get the same radiator but you have changed my mind about that. My local radiator shop said they could re-core mine for around $400 & I thought I would get the cheaper reproduction. Not any more, I will re-core mine.

If you can find an old radiator shop that has been around for a long time, they are usually reasonable and do a good job. If you know someone with dozers, loaders, forklifts, etc.,ask them where they take take theirs.

So what did the vendor, that you are reluctent to mention, say about the quality of their product. If they are not going to stand by their products the only way that they will is by letting others know about the junk they sell. The only way quality is improved is by the consumers refusal to buy the product.

on recoring, those tanks are 40 years old and made of brass, Brass is by nature brittle, add a little corrosion and vibration and you probably will have problems. I hate to spend the money, but I am going to get a new harrison or walker radiator and be done with it.

I brought my old Harrison in to be checked and it was in fairly decent shape still. As Alvin says, there is a lot of crappy repop stuff out there.

This is great dialog which is what I was hoping for when I posted the diatribe about my unfortunate experience. Now, I'll add some answers and caveats of my own...

The original 1941 radiator had blown it core and while the radiator shop (another one) did state that it could be recored I would more than likely be better off buying a new one if available. I was also told that the tank just wasn't worth putting a new ccre on. The reason I bought the new one, slightly less than two years ago, was because I thought at the time that I would have a rolling chasis with remanufactured engine running within months of beginning this project. After pulling the engine and taking it to the shop I was told that it would be ready in two weeks or so. The chassis was being blasted and painted and I wanted to have the radiator available when I remounted the engine. That was the time line I was working on at that juncture. Lesson 1 learned... these things always take longer than anticipated and cost far more than your original budget.

The reason the truck has only got slightly over 500 miles on it is due many unexpected detours with the restoration, mainly delays compounding delays; defective initial engine remanufacture; months of delays in getting the reman shop to stand by their warranty (even threatening legal action); parts research and procurement (just take a look at the thread on something that would seem fairly simple like Front Engine Mount Details (it wasn't simple but for the next guy it will be easier because of this great resource called Stovebolt.com); "milking the cow" in completing sheet metal work and painting due underbidding by the body shop (my project was placed on the back burner;) and lastly the scope of the restoration grew exponentially. A host of other "unexpected" forks in the road, not related to the project itself, also resulted in unanticipated delays.

I'm not so reluctant to mention the vendor in question, as my initial parts list is linked in the Gallery (I haven't updated it in quite some time and the new bottom line is much higher) and I just want to chat up the vendor on Monday and see what their response to this will be. After that I will post additional comments or resolution if any. Knowing these folks as I do I think something might be worked out as perhaps they really do believe that their outsourced product was built to original specs - it's not.

My initial frustration was that the parts catalog clearly states what I mentioned in the beginning of this thread. It wasn't until it failed with very little use that I discovered that it was a POS. I just don't like being sold a pigs ear when I was told it was a silk purse. Also at the time I bought it I didn't really shop around, and actually thought what I paid at the time was high, as the catalog indicated that I was getting a radiator built to GM standards, blah, blah, blah.

I'm aware that junk was being built back in the 40's too, but then again I believe the original radiator lasted at least 60 years. It may have been recored, even more than once, I have no way of knowing now as it ended up in the dump. I wish I had at least saved the original tank to do some comparisons in construction. If I had done that perhaps I would have sent the "new" radiator back immediately.

The reason I posted this topic in the beginning was to enlighten and help others learn from my mistake. I've done this throughout this most interesting and enlightening project. I don't mind admitting to making mistakes and would like to help other 'Bolters avoid the same ones if possible. The "heat" mentioned in the original thread was meant to provide some humor during a bad week in the world financial markets. The $400 wasted on this "investment" pales in comparison with more serious matters in life. The patience acquired with this undertaking serves me well in other endeavors too.

It's all cool and I will more than likely be speaking with Walker also on Monday. I'll let you all know how it turns out.

One day I will make my Blue Highway adventure and just want to start out with a reliable truck that will not turn this dream of mine into a Grape's of Wrath sort of saga.

Don

Quote "Lesson 1 learned... these things always take longer than anticipated and cost far more than your original budget."

It gives you real respect for Detroit where they can produce a bunch of different models in less than 12 months. Of course they're also more than my budget.

I bought my radiator from two brothers and is a good quality and i have had no issues.It comes with the auto tranny cooler in the bottom tank as will and cools my 327 very well.I have bought 4 of them from them for my other trucks and all are good.You should check ebay there are some rads for good prices on there.

Hope it helped you and good luck.

I think you can probably blame this on China. I had my brand new water pump fail too. The thick metal disk that was pressed onto the shaft cracked and flew off at 3000 rpm, sending the fan crashing at speed into a brand new radiator, ripping the core up to shreds.

I went back to Napa, who used to have some of the most trustworthy parts I could buy, and was told that all new auto parts are now made in China. My answer? "That figures...".

The good news is that they have taken all my parts and filed a claim with their insurance, and should be replacing all my destroyed parts as soon as their insurance process completes. I lose time with my truck, but I don't have to pay out of pocket.

My advice? I refuse to believe that all new parts are made in China, but I do think you will pay a premium dollar amount for those that are still made here. My advice is to suck it up and buy American. Even if it takes you longer to get your project on the road.

Scary reading, Don, since I also bought my radiator from the same dealer. Same claims. I had to take mine immediately to my local radiator shop to get the inlet and outlet tubes resized, since I knew that they wouldn't supply enough flow for my 6.2L diesel, so my warranty was voided from the get-go. My choice. The tech at my shop told me at the time that mine was a POS, but my truck hadn't come with an original radiator that could be re-cored, so I was stuck with this one.

Now I'm really wondering how long this one is going to last. I'll be reading with much interest what everybody else's experience has been. Thanks for giving me the heads-up on this, even if it is too late to return it. At least now I'll know what to watch for, once I get the truck on the road.

~Bruce

The engine is coming out today or tomorrow for a through going over and the check the rear seal. The vendor is looking into the radiator situation and things are looking positive there. I think I'll end up with a "Walker" although it won't appear "period" correct. I just want a reliable truck that looks mostly correct; it would have been nice if the radiator that failed wasn't a POS as it did look good--curved head, pleated tank, etc.

This kind of reminds me of when I was 18 years old and was pulling the engine from my '68 VW on Redwood street smack in the middle of Baltimore, Md. Two of my classmates helped me lift the rear wheels up on to timbers being used for building the subway and I then placed a piece of cardboard under the car. After sliding undeneath and unbolting the engine and dropping it onto my chest my buddies grabbed my ankles and pulled me and the engine out. We then took it into the school shop for overhaul. The director of the school wasn't impressed on Monday morning seeing my car on the side of the school up on blocks.

This whole project has taught me infinite patience--if I could only back out the financial aspects of it, especially during retirement. Kind of reminds me of an old codger who wandered up to the podium during a budget hearing years ago in our small town. After hours of acrimony, this old timer said "I've only got one thing to say... the comings in must equal the goings out!" How true and put very succinctly.


Don

down2sea,

Thanks for posting your story. I was about to order a radiator from the same dealer. I won't, at least for now.

Hold your horses and let me get the story from the vendor. Info I posted earlier may not have been correct so I edited the post. The vendor in question has still been a pleasure to do business with so let's see where this shakes out -- hopefully, we won't spring anymore leaks.

Don

Okay -- here's the scoop from the vendor. They have generously offered me a parts credit for the faulty radiator, or a replacement--my choice.

Also, they checked their records going back 3 years, or so, and have found that out of over 90 sold that there was only one returned radiator; that one returned due to damage. The radiators are made in the USA by a company that only builds radiators. The description in the catalog is based on the specifications provided by the reseller to the manufacturer, and the expectation that the manufacturing process is being done to spec.

Perhaps "my" radiator was a one-off production defect; the sales/return/complaint ratio would seem to indicate that. I suspect that there will be heightened scrutiny of the quality control process from their supplier also.

Needless to say, this vendor continues to be one of my favorites and I will, of course, continue doing business with them. They truly are great folks and provide tremendous support to this site.

Don

Don,

That is one of the reasons that I have not yet purchased too many parts. I had decided to wait and get things (expensive new stuff) as I need them. With prices always going up, I know that I will most likely pay more in the end, but so far I am okay with that.

Glad to hear that you are getting this issue resolved quickly and (hopefully to your satisfaction). You have a great looking truck, and it will all be worth it in the end.

Hang in there

John

PS: I am interested in how your rear main seal issue plays out. Although I know that these old trucks are notorious for marking their territory, I want to take extra precautions and keep any leaks to a minimum.
Please keep us informed about this as well.

Thanks

John

Thanks for the update. Your supplier is also my preferred vendor, and that's not going to change. They have always treated me well. Nevertheless, I'll proceed with a lot of caution. While a lack of solder may be a one-off problem, thin material isn't. I would be buying a different radiator than you (my truck is a 1952 GMC), but the problem may be the same. I learned a lot from this discussion, thanks.

John - I'll keep the other thread updated on the rear seal as I get to it. I thought for sure that I would be pulling the engine yesterday but instead broke my dang thumb on my right hand-- I think. It's amazing how much that particular tool is used and how useless the other 4 fingers become without it. As mentioned in one of my earlier posts on this thread I stated the reason for buying the radiator so long ago was that I thought for sure that I would have a running motor on a rolling chassis; little did this old timer know at the time on how wrong I was. Nevertheless, everything will work out fine and someday I will make that journey - as long as I can get and afford gasoline!

Polarcat -- As far as to buy or not to buy the radiator... The vendor is certainly now aware that something's up, or was, with that particular run, and knowing them as I do I'm sure that the problem will be rectified.

Don

Don, I agree with you regarding the vendor. Great folks. Very helpful. My radiator tech, however, had no idea where the radiator came from when he told me the metal was so thin that he wasn't sure if he could braze to it. (he did) I'm curious to see how it performs when I get the truck on the road.

If this causes them to scrutinize their parts suppliers better, that's a good thing for all of us. Thanks again.

~Bruce

As promised I will finally update this critical part update and status. The Vendor, Jim Carter, refunded the full purchase price plus shipping and intends to look very closely at the quality control issue that was discovered with this part. They, Jim Carter's, were, are, and still will be one of my preferred vendors. Now I just need to get the truck back on the road. Great service and a real supporter of the 'Bolt.

Don