The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop New Inner to Outer cowl panel question

It's a given that these things don't fit, that much we know.

My question is what did you do to make them fit? My main concern is the way they don't conform to the shape of the outer cowl where the fender bolt holes are. I've got some pretty big gaps once I get the top and bottom in place.

How do you deal with the gap? Do you squeeze the outer cowl down to close the gap or do you cut the Inner-to-Outer and make it conform to the outer cowl shape.

The problem here is that the fender has to bolt up to this and unless it's close there's going to be some more cutting to do once it comes time to mount the fenders. OR are the fenders flexible enough to conform to a not-so-perfect cowl shape?

I'd rather hear from people who have actually done this.

Theorists can sit this one out please.

THIS is what I'm dealing with. You can't see the bad fit but you can see I've got my hands full.

I have NOT installed my outer cowl Woody but perhaps let me say what I found since you ask what to go by...the inner to outer or the outer piece.
I ordered a new inner to outer and a new outer cowl panel from the same vendor. Their inner to outer would NOT even match up to their own outer cowl panel...but, get this, MY OLD inner to outer panel fit their new outer cowl. So what this means, at least to me, is that their outer cowl panel is good but the inner to outer sucks!
I took my old inner to outer panel to a guy who replaced the "sides" of it that were rusted almost totally out and it looks good. I just have to figure out exactly where to drill the emergency brake hole! (all for $25)

Several post on this "inner to outer" panel took place about a year ago. I was actually posting the remarks sent back to me from the vendor and their promises to get with the "manufacturing folks" and see what was going on. Later I got an email that said "we been selling these for 15 years and had no problems". Well, I sent them copies of stovebolt letters telling how we had to beat them into submission to get them to work but I was almost accused of Vendor Bashing here and the thread stopped...all because I was telling the TRUTH and revealing a popular vendors attitude about it!

So, beat, heat, twist and hammer into submission. Its the best you gonna get. :mad:

Woody, I had the same problem. First I made sure that the contour of the outer cowl panel matched the profile of the fender. Then I made the inner to outer match that profile.

Concentrate on making what you will be looking at most, which is the outside, fit well. And if that fit between outer body panels is a relaxed fit, it will save a lot of heartache when it comes time to do the final assembly.

I needed to cut my inner to outer to make it fit, and the kick panel too. It now looks like it did when new and there is no trace of the blood and sweat that it took to get there.

I have always built from the outside in. Others may take a different approach, but that has worked for me.

Alvin,

I saw those posts you're referring to but they didn't go into detail about what exactly the best what was to fix the problems. There wasn't enough left of my original parts to fill a Dixie cup but I catch your drift. I'm sure someone will start selling an inner-to-outer panel that fits perfectly about 10 minutes after I get mine buttoned up. :mad:

Dave,

That's about what I figured... get the contour of the outer cowl to match the fender and build the inner-to-outer to hold that contour. I guess there's no magic bullet for making that happen just a lot of common sense, cutting, bending and welding. I like the way you think. Thanks for jumping in.

Woody, nice work to date. I concur with the problems on the inner. I am not as far along as you, so I will be watching this thread and following your photos for guidance.

Scott

Once, a long time ago there was a set of NOS GM inner to outers on e-bay that went for $200 +. Nice work Woody and as stated focus on fender to outer fit. I also suggest measuring the width of your hood or test fitting to find out if your cowls are too far out or in. This will affect hood to fender gap. Good luck.

Curt B.

Yea, I caught that in one of the earlier posts on this subject. What a lost opportunity for someone to use them as patterns and make a set that actually fits.

Good point... A lot of potential pitfalls replacing the cowls that could come back to haunt me later if I don't pay attention. Probably best to test fit the fenders and hood before welding everything up.

My panel body is at a bodyman's shop. He has taken the doors of and on a number of times just to make sure that everything continues to fit. We have done the inner/outer panels and he is always measuring and pounding on stuff. He is also more concerned about the exterior fit, the stuff you see. He tells me that after my truck is done he won't be doing any more restorations. (maybe it's too frustrating) Sorry I don't have any more details on specifics, but he did most of the grunt work

Check out the inner to outer cowl folder in my webshots link below. I posted this about a year ago. It worked for me my front body panels fit close to perfectly.

Hope this helps
RB53

Thanks for the detailed pics Rustbucket. I am in the process of trying to make the inner cowl and inner-to-outer cowl fit. Czechman warned me that they did not fit right and would have to be modified. Your step by step showed me just how to do it. Thanks again.

RB53,

I saw your photos when I did my search and found where you mentioned doing a how-to back then. To be honest, I could not for the life of me figure out what you did to your inner-to-outer. I saw the photos but none of the changes you made seemed to pertain to my fit problems and since you were only dealing with the short outer cowls I figured that was the reason.

Anyway, the only problems I'm having is at the very bottom where it attached to the sill appears to be too wide and I'll have to hang the fenders and hood to check the shape of the area where the fender mounts to the cowl and the width of the hood.

Hey Czechman - I viewed your cab restoration pix. The one big suggestion that I have for all of us is the need to weld in cross bracing in the door openings BEFORE you aggressively cut out that much sheetmetal. Otherwise everything starts to move around and you'll be forever trying to get stuff back to where it should be. Measure door openings at several places BEFORE cutting the panels out. Do the floor bracing FIRST before doing the inner kick panel and the inner cowl (dog leg) to outer cowl. And, most of these replacement panels don't fit! You got to make them fit, by slicing and dicing and welding and hammering etc. The only guy the makes real nice patch panels is Ray Stanley in Wheelwright,MA. Your project looks like it's coming along nice. About that gap with the inner dog leg to the outer panel....try putting the fender on to see which panel is right. (Have the hood on first). You may have to adjust both -or you may find that the outer is good. Anyway it's only sheet metal, you can cut it and weld it and hammer it around to get things to fit. Good Luck.

As long as you have a solid floor pan or sill they provide all the bracng you need. The only thing that's going to move in this situation is the distance between the bottoms on the striker and hinge pillars.

Think of the door opening as a ring of steel. Unless you are in a collision or other destructive event that circle will never change, BUT if you cut a piece out of the circle you can visualize how that gap could open and close. In the case of these trucks, the sill and floor pan are the primary supports for this dimensional stability. Remove one and you're okay. Remove both and you're in trouble unless you brace. I learned this many years ago when we cut the roof off a PINTO and that is something that has never changed... and why convertibles have such heavy frames.

In my case I did one at a time and my door fits and latches perfectly... indicating that my door opening is what it should be and nothing gets welded until I test fit the clip. Right now I'm just getting everything roughed in... the little things will get worked out once I know the cab is good.

Czechman I watched your slide show. You inspired me to pull my right front fender today. Things look better having seen what you did.

Thanks for the post.

Neil