The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Apache, or??

Hi, I'm new and I don't know much about my trucks. I just know that I really "dig" 'em, and the rest I figure I'll learn.

I have a 1961 stepside (I believe a LWB). The emblems are missing, and I am wondering if it is an Apache. How can I tell? And, not that I'm wanting to ever sell her, but is there a "value" difference? :confused:

thanks for any input,
Husker

"Apache" was the [marketing] name used for all light duty trucks [1/2T, 3/4T and 1T] from 1958 to I think 1966 - the heavier trucks were called Viking and the heaviest were Spartans - if your truck is a 1T or smaller, it's an Apache, but the name is meaningful only as an advertising gimmick of the day and has no relation to value

welcome to the garage anyhow, and fire away w/ yer questions - the answers in all flavors will follow!

Bill

Thank you, Bill. I was wondering if that was the case, but then I asked someone in my store today, and they thought it was a different body style. That's why I came to ask people who would know.

Second question, if I may. She's got a 283, and I am quite happy with it, however the original transmission leaves something to be desired. Any suggestions?

Husker

Standard shift, or automatic? The auto would be a cast-iron case Powerglide, with only two forward speeds. If it's a 3-speed stick, it's got a non-synchronized 1st. gear. If you're not interested in staying all-original, a turbo 350 3-speed auto, or a turbo 700 4-speed overdrive can be adapted with a minimum of fuss. If it's a standard shift, a Saginaw full-synchro 3-speed or one of the 4 or 5-speeds can be installed. How about some more details?
Jerry

I don't know what modifications, if any, the truck has already had. Right now it has four on the floor. I'm guessing it's original, just from the previous owner's lack of interest in fixing it up.

Here is the problem as best as I can describe it: I drove it home from the mechanic's after the engine was rebuilt, truck inspected, and all that legal stuff. Acceleration at low gears was awesome, but "short". Moved through the low gears way too quick. Got out on the highway and headed up the canyon. Plenty of "umpphh", never dropped below 55 mph all the way up the grade to the summit. But here's the thing. The engine was just sounding "good", definitely wasn't maxxed out or anything, but it had nowhere else to go. If I had had even one more gear, it would've taken that grade at 75 or 80 mph easily. And actually at the time, it felt like it would fly to the moon if it had a way to get there.

Sorry I don't know all the terminology. Like I said, I don't know a lot. But I know when an engine "sounds" and "feels" good. I've had people tell me to take the 283 out and put in a 350 crate. I've nothing against the 350, I have one in my '94 3/4 ton. But my gut instinct tells me that there's nothing wrong with that 283 that the proper transmission and gear ratio won't fix.

But that's all I've got ... gut instinct. No knowledge or experience to back it up. For batting around the dirt roads, the low gear ratio would be fine. But I really want to make this truck a comfortable, daily driver that is highway worthy.

I also want the brake system upgraded. I can live with the steering once the play is taken out and I bolt on a suicide knob (if that is still legal).

What have other people done that worked, and are happy with? What would they do differently?

If there's other info I'm lacking in order to get good advice, just tell me where to look for it. I'm not afraid to go crawling under there looking, just don't know what I'm looking for. :-)

Thanks,
Husker

"Just planning on getting this gorgeous hunk of metal back out on the road where she belongs."

Hey, Husker

Sounds like you've got a real nice truck there!

I'm no expert on mechanics, but I believe what you're describing points at the rear end - you may want to put a different rear end in or change the gearing ratios, which would have you shifting LATER than you are now and give you less RPMs at higher speeds.

I have a Chevy 12-bolt rear end in my truck with a 350/350TH and at 65 mph I'm only turning 2000 rpm (I don't know what my gear ratio is in the 12-bolt, but I sure am happy with it).

283's are great little motors. The size seems to work real well for creating responsive lite-weight vehicles. If the valves, intake manifold and carb are right it will be a lot of fun to drive around town.

The other side of the coin is that it won't make the power a larger motor will. You must have pretty low gears in the rear right now. If you change to a higher ratio, or an overdrive transmission, you're going to give up some of the responsiveness you currently experience.

Where you will feel that most if going up hills at speed. If running up hills at 75 or 80 is your desire you may want more motor...

i believe 1961 is the last year for the apache.for more speed you will either have to change the rearend ratio or install an overdrive transmission.i believe? your truck has a 391 rear gear.eight foot bed-long bed,6.5 foot bed-short bed.

Good food for thought, thank you. So let me see if I get this straight.

There could be nothing wrong with the transmission. I could simply change the gear ratio on the rear end (or have it done, rather). However, if that is done, then I may lose that incredibly fun "umpph" or responsiveness, and it may not be enough to get the truck up the mountains at highway speeds (due mainly to vehicle weight).

It's not that I'm in need of hot rodding my truck up mountains, but from where I live I have two mountain ranges to go down and over before I get to a "town" to enjoy the fun responsiveness of an engine. So, mountainous, highway driving, is a must. As long as I can maintain 70 - 50 mph, I won't be run off the road. It did do 55 mph up the smaller canyon, so maybe I'm not in too bad of shape.

I think I'll try having the gear ratio changed just a bit first, and see where that gets me. If however, that doesn't work, then I'll save my 283 for a lighter-bodied vehicle. That would leave my '61 engineless.

I've had two different ideas run through my head, and I'd like to get opinions on them. For the fun of it, let's assume that cost is not an issue. (Now I'm really dreaming.) Which would make a more dependable and safe ride?:

1. Putting my truck body on a newer frame with newer engine, fuel injection, suspension, brakes, blah, blah, blah? ???

Or, 2. Making modifications, engine upgrades, different braking systems, etc... to the original truck? ???

I guess you can tell I'm not viewing this truck as a "purist". I have a '37 that will be a "to original" project. That way I get the best of both worlds. (That's called "can't really make up your mind - staying original or making modifications" - so you get 2 trucks. lol)

Just brainstorming here. Trying to see what other truck lovers would do, and what is possible. Thanks for the input and ideas.

Husker

If it were mine, I would add another gear like you thought it needed. Either a 5 speed overdrive or a 700R automatic. You'll keep low end torque and gain more top end speed. As far as modern upgrades, it would be easier to modify your chassis with kits and conversions that a complete body swap to a different drivetrain.
That's my 2 cents,
Scott

Thanks for all the info, I appreciate all the input and help. I'm going to start looking into my options. I'll let you guys know how it's coming.

Husker

how it's coming

Wow... you dredged up an old post.

How's it coming, eh? Well let's see, the 283 isn't what the engine was/is. That's just what the intake came off of. It is a 327. And yes, I still like the engine.

Hadn't done anything to it except put a few miles on it since 2004 until this summer. This summer I decided to fix it up enough to make it a daily driver without any major mods. Drive it for a year, and get a better "feel" for what I want the end result to be.

So, I wanted to get the cab corners and the holes in the roof patched, look over the heater/defrost situation, and give it a basic paint job to prepare it for winter.

That was the plan, but it has grown since then. In the process of removing the fuel tank, I discovered that the fuel was old and no good. I've learned a hard and invaluable lesson there. I'm still working on tracking down all of the problems that putting that old gas into my '84 GMC truck caused. Yikes! GREAT learning experience, if you know what I mean...

Anyhow, when I'm not trying to get the '84 to run WELL again, I'm still working on the '61. I got all the rotted wood out of the bed and cut off the bolts holding the bed to the frame. Still can't remove the bed because the stepside wheel wells are "trapped" by the wrap-around bumper. There's only four bolts holding the bumper on, but they are tough nuts to crack. LOL I spray more PB Blaster in there periodically, but so far there's no movement. Can't quite get the angle grinder in there to make short work of it, so... waiting for my husband and I to work on that together (once our work schedules cooperate).

Meanwhile, took out the dash cluster to look it over. None of the gauges worked. Haven't found any OEM ones yet. Am thinking of putting different ones in and updating it a tad, but haven't decided yet. (Did however find the ones I would update to if I go that route. Very awesome looking ones from a '66 IHC truck. $20 for the whole cluster.)

I'm removing the mid-seventies radio that is crammed in so tight it has all the heater cables pinched. That will leave a very ugly hole in the dash, but at least I can have heat.

Neither my husband or I have done any autobody work before, so working on the cab corners could be an adventure in of itself. And the holes in the roof? If I didn't want to keep a "clean" roof line, I'd buy a spotlight and fill the hole that way. But... I just can't quite picture that. So, we'll have to see how that comes out as well.

The most reassuring thing is we have two friends who will come up and help me paint the truck. They have a compressor, paint gun, and experience. wheww...

Since the whole old fuel issue, I'm replacing the fuel tank, sending unit, lines, and will be rebuilding the carb. Hopefully, that will fix why the truck had been running a bit rough and smelling like gasoline.

With any luck that will all be completed by Fall. And then we'll see what else needs to be done to get it to pass inspection.

Well, there it is. The good, the bad, and the ugly. I'm learning a lot. And I'm working on an old truck. That was always my dream, so I'm happy. ... when I'm not cussing. LOL

Thanks for asking

P.S. I found two "Apache 20" side hood emblems. So after the paint, she'll be "dolled" up it.

thanks for the update