The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay Coil/Distributor questions. edit- Ignition problems too!

Well, Achipmunk, guess it was easy after all, after I got the amp gauge off! So little room in there that I was practically laying on the clutch even with the seat back all the way and me laying on my side. Got the vise grips on the nuts and they turned very easily. Not corroded at all. So now I'm going to put everything back on the way it's supposed to be tomorrow. I have a question though. Can I hook up the generator without frying it, the current won't fry my oil or temp guage, and it won't fry my ignition, right? I know it works(ignition) or at least it did because the po(not sure if I can trust him but I wish I could because he's my best friend's dad) had turned it over supposedly with a 6v battery through the ignition and the owner before him had started to restore my truck so I'm pretty sure that it works.

My question is still unanswered so if you missed it it's the post above this.

jdl.

I'll let Achipmunk answer your question.

However, I'll add a piece of advice: when you hook up the generator, be sure to polarize the generator/voltage-regulator as described in the Shop Manual in the generator section and in the voltage-regulator section.

Tim

OK? How would I even do that? I'll look but I don't know if I can do that.

I'd like to know now, if possible, that my ignition won't fry. It shouldn't since it only makes and breaks the circuit, right?

Well, even if the gauges didn't need disconnecting(other gauges besides gas and amp) they are now, and they are all taped and labeled. Now I'm just waiting to find out if my ignition is up to 12v but I think I'm worrying over nothing. Just being overly cautious.

sorry, I been to a friends "receiving friends" if you know what I mean.
Jordan, as stated, I'm not the electrical guru but if you got the guages unhooked that you were worried about....and then wire it like it was.... I would NOT be afraid to hook up the generator like its suppose to be long enough to see if your getting fire to the distributor from the coil. If I remember correctly you said it has a 12 volt coil on it. (IF it is a 6 volt I wouldn't worry at all)
I've put 12 volts to a 6 volt system many times to start a vehicle with out doing any damage.
I really don't see the need to even connect the generator to accomplish what you want to....
So
with guages unhooked, wire everything back originally but the generator and try turning it over and watch for fire.
BUT this time make sure the distributor cap is back on. Take the end of the COIL wire that goes into the center of the distributor cap and hold it almost down in the cap with someone turning the engine and watch for fire. This will eliminate any chance of the coil wire not firing against the side of the engine because of dirt/grease/gunk on the engine and it not providing a good ground. It fire is going to show up it should "pop" into the distributor....but heck, while trying it one way you can also try it the other to!!
Then report back!
Electrical guys...where are you. I need help helping

OK, will try that before school, only thing I need to do is hook up the battery, stick in the key, and turn it over.

Well now, I have a question! The starter works with the wire in the original place, but without the key on, too! Don't think that's supposed to happen, so I'm going to go and put that black little wire on the starter behind the battery cable and see if that helps.

Guess I misunderstood the starter too! It's supposed to start without the key too, but you can't fire the engine without the key on. That starter being live all of the time seems a little unsafe to me. Oh, got a voltmeter yesterday so I can see if the ignition is good etc...

If you have a floor start type,yes it will turn over with the key off.The ignition switch turns on the power for the ignition system to fire.

Don't have any spark at the points ever since I put it back the way it was supposed to be. I think that my ignition switch has either gone completely bad or the connections are corroded. When I turn the switch, it feels like something gritty is in the switch.

Anyone have any likely suggestions for what could be the problem? I'm not sure how easy it would be to get the the ignition switch contacts to see since it took me 2 hours to get the last wire off of the guage so it wouldn't fry. Also, do I need to unhook anything from the speedometer or not? I don't know. Anyway, I know something is wrong somewhere.

you don't have to worry about the speedometer. Lets take a pepsi break and see if some of the electrical guru's chime in here....any idea when Koolkar may be back around. A lot of questions can probably be answered by him in a few minutes?.
Now back to the pepsi. I got to run for now......

Got the package! I need help on how to install it but I'll look into the manual to see. I know how to install the easy stuff like the condenser and sparkplugs etc... But there's the points and I don't know if this is for the points or not but it's long, white, looks like it has a fuse in it, and has two prongs on it. Any help will be appreciated!

I discovered something. I only got 5 sparkplug wires. But hopefully the one I left on is good. Is there a way for me to clean the connections or if possible for me to take the end off, strip the end, and then put the end back on? I couldn't use the cap I got, because it was too small, but that is ok because the one on it looks brand new with no burning on it. Everything in the distributor looks fine but I'm going to have my brother replace the points. Thanks Chris! (drummin52)

I was going to mention this to you before you got the package but ive been very busy, but i knew you would ask before hooking it up, the coil i gave you doesn't have a internal resistor, so that long white thing that looks like it has a fuse in it with two prongs on it is the ballast resistor. That gets spliced in to the wire that goes to + on the coil from the ignition switch. This must be wired in or you will eventually fry the coil.

Anywhere along the wire going to the + side of the coil, cut and put crimp connections on and mount the resistor somewhere where it won't hurt anything (ie melt wires, ect) when it gets warm and hook the ballast resistor up. The resistor is new, I bought it a few weeks ago, so there is no worry of that being bad. I bought it before i decided to go with a hei distributor which doesn't require a inline resistor.

Thats weird that the cap isn't the same, it came off of a 54 235 which is what is in your truck too, my engine came from a car instead. Odd that it would be different, but at least the one thats already on it is good.

Let us know how everything goes.

Well, drummin, I pm'd you about my dog laying on the wire when I took them out. Sorry if you looked for hours for anything! Thanks for the info. But now I'm talking REAL nice to my mom so she MIGHT buy a battery charger tomorrow since my battery went dead.

I knew I put all of them in the package, you got me thinking when you said you were missing one, I was trying to play the day back in my head when I removed everything and put it in the box. Glad you found it. Now get sweet talking, WE WANT IT STARTED.


Does that camera you have take video??? Can you borrow one from someone? I know we all want to hear and see it run.

Don't know anyone with a camera that takes video, and neither does my camera take video. Right now I'm trying to change the points because they, I believe, are the things that caused me to believe my ignition is bad. I had to file them again. I can get all but the screw that holds the spring on the points(or what ever the springy piece of metal is on the points) and the wire to the condenser loose. I can't get anything to fit down there between the points and the manual is not clear to me.

Can I just break the wire off of the condenser since I have one? If I do that I can get the vise grips on it. With those points in the way I can't get any thing in there.

as far as the screw that holds the points, make sure you are using a screw driver that fits down in the slot completely, length and width, I also found putting it in a vise, or something to hold it still, allows you put more pressure on the screw while turning, but then again having the distributor in the engine, should make it like putting it in a vise. Id say use some pb blaster but that stuff is flammable and once you do get spark, it could possibly ignite the fumes (thats safety speaking).

I don't know what to tell you about the condenser wire. To remove it I just turned the outside nut and it turn the screw and the connector slid off (or something like that). Someone else may chime in with some secret technique. I was looking at a distributor from a 216 and it actually has a nut in the inside and out, not sure why they would change it.

first get the points removed, and then work on the condenser wire. If you are sure you will be able to change the condenser, then go for it.

Mabe check into a set of ignition wrenches?I have a set from sear's,many of these screws have a hex head and the only way to get them is a small endwrench.Your local parts store may have em to.Just my 2.5 cent's Tom

Well, I'm in luck! Got the charger, got the points changed! Got the condenser changed! Got the condenser and points changed last night. I ended up having to use vise grips on the wire and on the points and pull them off with the screw still on. I'm confused as to why it even has a slot on it. It has the nut on the other end and the plastic insulator has a piece on it that sticks out and goes into a notch out of the screw head. So why it has a groove is beyond me. My points were ok, but they looked to be original so it was probably good to replace them since I had to file them AGAIN to get them to spark the second time I tried to get them to spark before I decided to change the points then. Got the condenser off too and if I can get a terminal like what was on it again I should be able to use it. I'd like to know why they made it look like a screw and why they put on a nut that could get rusted on to keep it together? Anyway, everything is changed and hopefully when my battery is charged, which should be anywhere from an hour to five hours from now, my truck will start. I also noticed that the points I had and the ones that Chris sent me are a little different. Mine had a little prong like thing with a piece of red fibre(like the washers you buy to put on your battery) in it. The replacement(from a car engine so Chris says) doesn't have that. But I can tell you that they work a hole lot better!(once I filed THEM! They had a little corrosion on them, but nothing like mine had on them before I filed them) Also, I have not seen any hex head screws. That puzzles me.

Regular ignition wrenches will not help you with a 1953 and later 235/261 distributor's points/condenser/external-lead nut. A special slotted screwdriver is needed (I saw security screwdriver bits at Harbor Freight that would work real well).

distributor point nut tool

Ah yes,I made one of them out of a screwdriver....Tom

jdl: that little red like piece of fiber your talking is what "lubed" the distributor shaft where a part of the point breaker arm rides against the distributor shaft. The "lube" keeps the "tab" that rides against the distrbutor shaft from wearing out fast and causing your point gab to close up.....
BUT do not be concerned with this now everything is going OK and its no big deal right now. Just mentioned it to perhaps help you understand more as you learn more or if it comes up.
Hope I'm making some sense. Your doing a great job Jordan.

Thanks.

Well, I'm confused again. When I turn the engine over the points spark once or twice, but nothing afterwards. Even when I adjust them with the screw to make and break the circuit, nothing. It's getting electricity because when you touch it with a screwdriver the breaker arm sparks. Any ideas?

Sounds like the points gap is just a little too big. Adjust the points in just a little, turn the engine over and see what happens. Do you have or have access to a set of feeler gauges so you can accurately set the points gap?

I think that my brother could borrow some, and he said that he's going to take it to my neighbor's and work on it.

Well, now, I'm confused! Now the points won't spark at all! It's getting electricity because I used a multimeter(wish I'd quit forgetting the names of tools!) to check and it's getting current. My brother said he'd try to figure it out sometime, but I was wondering if you guys knew of something. And with the battery hooked up, if I touch the points with a screwdriver it occasionally sparks, but that's it.

jdl, what kind of ignition system do you have on your truck? The cap in the picture you posted is not an original cap for your truck, although it is a good picture to see what one looks like inside. And that one looks all right. The cap in the picture looks like one for an electronic ignition system. The previous troubleshooting advice is directed toward a 'standard' contact system. If that is what you have, ok so far, and the cap picture is good to see what a good cap looks like.

You can check for continuity through the coil if you connect a wire to the negative side of the coil and scratch the other end to the engine block, or any good ground location. You should see sparks when you scratch the wire end to ground- with power connected to the positive side. All that tells you is that you have power to the coil, and there is continuity through it. No sparks, no connection somewhere in the system. Don't hang on to the uninsulated end of the wire when you try this; if the coil is working, you may get a pretty substantial shock. Make sure you do this at the negative terminal of the coil, not the positive side.

Harvester

Harvester, the ignition system is original.