The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay Coil/Distributor questions. edit- Ignition problems too!

I was told to take the wire that goes from the top of the coil to the top of the distributor off of the distributor, hold it close to the engine, and see if electricity would arc. Well, I tried that, even had the end touching the engine when I tried this, and nothing. So either the coil(supposedly new 12v coil installed by po) is bad or the wires(from the coil to the distibutor and from the distributor to the sparkplugs need to be replaced. Anyone have suggestions?

jdl;
Was someone else turning the engine over with the starter while you held the wire close to the block?

If so - the trouble could be the coil or the wiring as you suggest but it could also be the points or condenser as that is what is actually triggering the spark as the engine turns over.

Waldo 53, yes someone else was turning over the engine and I held the wire close to the engine. I took off the wire that I'm speaking of and it looks fine- no corrosion, so I'm thinking that the coil is the culprit. Also, the points are clean- I think they were replaced. The distributor's insides look clean and good but the condenser could be bad but if there's no electricity going from the coil to the distributor there's no way to tell if there's anything wrong with the distributor.

jdl,

Have you checked to see if current is coming into the coil (from the ignition switch and/or the starter switch, depending on how you are wired) - I did not see this mentioned above (sorry for asking, if you have confirmed this already).

Tim

Tclederman, in a matter of speaking I have the truck "hot wired" because I did not find a 6v battery and Koolkar has told me he will help me convert it to 12v. The coil is a supposedly brand new 12v coil. I have checked to see if electricity is flowing FROM the coil, and it is not. How do I check to see if any is going to it? Do I take the wire I have connected to the coil and the starter, disconnect it from the coil, and hold it to the engine too or?

I assume you have a 12volt battery that you are using just for cranking and starting purposes. Are you by-passing the ignition switch? If so, you should have a wire from the + side of your battery, to the small + terminal on your coil, and a wire from the - terminal of your coil to your distributor. I would hook this up, take off the distributor cap, and watch for spark at the points.

I would not try holding to the engine the wire that comes from the starter/ignition to the coil. But, when dealing with electricity you have to be able to trace the current from connection to connection (starting at the source of the power (the battery).

If you have a Harbor Freight nearby, I'd go there and buy an inexpensive multi-meter, like this meter or this meter.

Another inexpensive but handy tool is a spark checker.

Tim

Don't forget to unhook the wire from the battery to the coil. You might weld your points together if they're closed.

Keith and Tim are on the right track. JDL did you get a manuel yet?This could be of some help although covers basics only on the coil. I looked up my manuel. very basic .If you are holding the coil wire in your hand to touch to the block and you get spark you will know it.It will shock you hard. I would advise against it. So be careful.
Good luck .Follow the way Keith said to bypass switch sound correct to me.

Ken

I found this picture and even though it has those arrows on it you can see most of the cap. Am I missing anything from my cap? I think I am but I've never seen the inside of a distributor before and the only thing I have to go on is a shop manual.

nothing missing, it's just a "cup" - look at yer other thread jd ... it helps if ya don't have the same discussion going in different places

Bill

The picture of the distributor cap is correct.
What everyone is trying to say is simply that the reason you may not be getting any fire is because basically speaking "the switch isn't on".....which is why they are telling you to try wiring it so that you are "by passing" the switch in case there is a problem there. With the little test light you can probably do some checking with it and tell if you have fire when you turn teh switch on....
BUT I'm no electrician for sure..just trying to help you understand what is being said.

Your doing great. Think how much more you know now than two months ago!! Stay at it with a steady pace and you'll have that thing running before Koolkar gets back!!!

Red, I've been looking at it and when I mentioned in the Spoon that I'm having troubles everyone wanted to chime in. These two threads are the ones I've been checking the most all day. I'm pretty sure that the wires(for the spark plugs and the one for the coil/distributor) need to be replaced. But I'm still confused as to why my coil won't send any electricity to my distributor. I just re read a post and it scared me! The wire on the distributor( the little one on the side) is supposed to be connected to the - on the coil? I'm pretty sure that that's the way I have it but I'm not completely sure.

Achipmunk, if that's what everyone(excluding red58 because he's the one who told me how to do the hot wire) thinks than I'm sorry. I'm not using the ignition switch because I don't want to fry my gas and or amp gauge. I have the battery hooked up as normal, but the wire from the starter that feeds power to the rest of the truck is disconnected and taped. The generator wires are disconnected and taped.(and yes I know where they go) I have a wire from the starter to the coil(+, I HOPE, I checked earlier and am pretty sure I have it this way) and then the - goes to the distributor. Now, when the battery is hooked up, the only thing I need to do is push the clutch in and push in on the starter pedal.

If I'm starting to frustrate any of you, when you reply next, try using simple words when describing something(I don't think I haven't understood any words yet) or be as clear as you can(some things have me confused, as connecting the battery to the coil. Is this to see if the coil is good or something of that effect?

sounds like you have it connected correctly to get some spark to and thru the dist .... what you really need is a cheapie volt/ohm meter so you can check continuity and the presence of voltage at each point along the line

Bill

Yes, I checked and the wires ARE right. I went out and even put terminals on the wire(had just put the ends on there with bare ends) to make sure that the connections would be good. Of course, the wire may be bad because it's just what I found and I think it was off a computer speaker that I took apart for the wire to use in a science thing.(one of the speakers were bad)

I don't think I have a need for this thread anymore! Guess why!

Guess I was wrong, I still need this thread. Pulled a plug to see if there was spark when the engine turned over...Nothing. Pulled the wire that goes from the coil top to the distributor cap...Nothing. So, what could be wrong? The points spark. That means that the coil is getting electricity to the distributor. Anyone have a clue?

The connector between the points and the plug wire is the distributor rotor. Check its condition.

It looks fine. Everything looks good. But like I said, nothing is coming from the coil when the center wire is unplugged from the distributor and held against the engine. So I guess that either the wire is bad or part of the coil is bad?

I am going to end up having to replace the wires for the sparkplugs and the one going from the middle of the coil to the distributor so what brand or number should I get?

hey jdl, if you want, for no charge at all, i will even pay for the shipping, i have a new set of spark plug wires, a good 12volt coil, a new set of points, a new condenser and a new cap and rotor. All came with my truck when i bought it, but i wont be needing any of it as im switching to a hei electronic distributor with top mounted coil. If your interested either private message me with your shipping address or just reply here and i will get them sent off in a day or so and shouldn't take more than a day or two to get to your. let me know.

Hey, yeah, I'm interested! I need all the extra money I can have, and if I get the offer for free stuff, even if I don't need it now, I want it because I never know when I need it. Thanks again! And you are sure that all of it works, right? Yeah, again, I'd love to have it! I'll probably have to save any money I get for paying someone to weld in metal on the body, so here's my address: RR1 Box 249A Lyons IN 47443.

Jordan, if you have spark when the points open, move on to the next piece of the circuit, that being the cap and rotor. It may sound dumb but one time I had trouble getting spark at the plugs, but I had spark at the points. I put the cap on and couldn't get spark anywhere. Then after awhile I remembered, I forgot to put the rotor back in before I put the cap on. The rotor is the piece that sits on top of the distributor shaft that turn around inside the cap to deliver spark to each terminal on the cap. (you maybe knew this, but you want simple language) If you have spark at the points, put the rotor, cap, and coil(center) wire back on, remove one plug wire (at the plug end) at a time and have someone turn the engine over. Hold the end of the plug wire "close" to the plug and watch (or feel ) for spark. Don't actually make contact with the plug and wire, just hold it really close. Let us know what happens.

If your timing is WAY off that could be part of the problem too, but at this point I would say next step is wires... Your wires should be soft and supple... If they are stiff, hard, or brittle then they are most likely bad.. do you have pictures of YOUR distributor up anywhere? Not just the cap, but the distributor and rotor etc...?
Laterz,
Gator
>|--|~

ok got the address, like i mentioned reply by pm if you would prefer

Jordan __________(last name) needed to ship
RR1 Box 249A
Lyons IN 47443

We had one wired wrong.
It had power till you started cranking then the power would go out. I got a clue when it would try alittle after key was released.

Gator, no pictures but I will put one up. Packrat, yes the rotor is back on. I would try the wires close to the plug, but I still don't think that there would be any spark at the plugs with nothing coming from the big wire at the coil right? I tried the big wire at the coil and distributor disconnected from the distributor held close to the engine and even touching it and nothing happened, even after cleaning the points and them sparking.

Another little tip for you when using the "wire to ground" method of looking for spark... Take a phillips head screw driver that is the same size as the tip of the spark plug and "plug" it into the end of the wire... Then, holding onto the non-metal handle of the screw driver, hold the metal screw driver shaft close (no more than 1/8 in) to a grounding point (engine block) and look for spark there... doing this you can get your 'contacts' closer and where the spark will be easier to see...
Laterz,
Gator
>|--|~

Ok Gator, I'm uploading pics as I type this.

Cap. Inside of distributor. Kind of blurry. Another of the inside. It's blurry too but that's about the best I can do.

Simple? Ok, let try this. If what you are worried about is the guages getting fried then why not try this.

Instead of trying to "hot" wire it just leave the wires where they are and disconnect the wires on the back of the guages which is two on each one and they are fairly easy to get to!!

EDIT: Don't be concerned about what I'm gonna say here but just as info on my 52 Panel my restoration guage guy told me that on mine it didn't matter if it was 6 or 12 the guage would be OK. I have notes somewhere and believe it was for the amp guage. Nevertheless, we learn by asking questions because some years & models are different and things may not always be as they seem. Therefore we always try to veer to the SAFE side. Keep at it. Your doing a good job Jordan and one day that first ride will make it all worthwhile. I know that from experience!

Next question, have you checked for spark at more than one plug wire, or did you only try one? You could have a bad wire on the one you were checking. It is highly unlikely that ALL the wires would be that bad that you wouldn't have spark at at least a few of them. If you have no spark at ANY of them, then the problem is further back in the system. Do you have access to a couple plug wires that you could "borrow" from something else, like a tractor or something. See if you can find a wire to replace the coil wire, and then check for spark at the plug wires again. It really sounds to me like you have a bad coil wire. That would explain the spark at the points, and no spark being delivered to the plug wires.

i believe he mentioned that he tried jumping the main wire from the coil that goes to the center of the cap, to ground and got nothing.

Yeah, packrat, that was my thinking. Also, I may have access to wires but not to the coil wire. My mom's Intrepid is in my yard and it's broke down. I guess I could use the spark plug wire in the coil and distributor? I know the ends are different but another person mentioned using one of the sparkplug wires from my truck to use on the coil. And Achipmunk, I WOULD REALLY do what you say but when I tried to get to them I couldn't. I'm sure if you've looked at my gallery pics you've seen that I'm not the smallest 13 year old out there! And there's not much space, so if someone had a pic up under the dash at what I'm supposed to be doing that would be great!

also doesn't a 12 volt coil require a ballast resistor. I know the wire that would go from the starter solenoid to the distributor (if equipped) doesn't require one as your not continuously supply power to the coil through that circuit but the wire from the ignition switch does so you don't burn up the coil. Now depending on how he "hot wired" it to try to start the engine, i would think that it could possibly burn up the coil. Now this would depend all on how he wired up the coil. I would think supplying a full 12 volts to the coil continuously would fry the coil. Any ideas??? I'm just speculating as trying to diagnose a problem like this is really difficult when doing it over the internet.

Drummin, it has an internal resistor. No worries there, I think. I know it definitely has one because it says on the side that it has one and "no external resistor required."

Also, for one more time since you missed it before for someone else(not getting frustrated) I hooked up the battery as normal(after doing the following), disconnected the generator and taped the terminals(and yes I know where they go back to) disconnected the wire on the + of the coil and taped the terminals, and ran a wire from the starter to the + of the coil. I also replaced the terminal that goes from the - of the coil to the distributor at the distributor because it was corroded.

One of the plug wires would work as a temporary coil wire. Give that a try, I have a feeling your coil is ok, it's just a matter of getting that spark out of the distributor and through the plug wires.