The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Problems with transmission and axle? EDITED!!! CHECK NOW!!! EDITED AGAIN!!!

As most of you know, and as you can tell by my signature, I own a '54 3100 Chevy. My transmission is either stuck in one gear, or two. Well, today, I was jacking up the rear axle and put some solid concrete blocks under the axle on both sides, and then I spun the wheels. But the thing is, the transmission is stuck in gear. They're not supposed to spin by hand in gear, right? And if they're in two gears, then that doesn't act like neutral, right? And remember that I'm only 13 and don't know very much about this.

When you spun a wheel did the one on the other side turn the oposite direction? If so, things are normal, and your differential appears to be okay.

Drop one rear wheel back on the ground, and if your transmission is stuck you should not be able to turn the wheel that is still raised.

jdl, concrete blocks long ago earned the name "widow maker," for good reason. Buy some good jack stands for your truck, and don't be messing around under it or along side it unless it is properly and solidly supported; and that doesn't mean good jack stands placed on soft soil- I've looked at the pictures of your truck you posted a while ago. I know concrete blocks are readily available, and many people have used them to support vehicles- and a lot of people haven't survived the exercise, either.

After that balling out, I agree with OldSub on his advice.

Harvester

I agree, on both points.

I don't know if I can explain this but I'll try.
Long ago my dad had a truck that would "stick in two gears" or so he said. But one way to tell for sure is to raise the hood and look where the little gear shift "box" sits on top of the steering wheel. If BOTH of the little arms are even then its likely not stuck in gear. When dads would "hang up" we would reasch down and by hand pull up the leave that was "down". I would work most every time.
The other thing you may want to do is see if you can move the arms on the side of the transmission by hand.

JDL: how did you all move it when you brought it home? Did someone sit in the cab with the clutch pushed in so it would roll?
Ditto on jack stands. My dad had MANY ribs broken back in the 60's due to mainly NO jack stands. I have never forgot it.

Hope your foot is doing fine.

I was rasied with a 1954 three quater ton chev pick-up. The pick-up had a three speed transmission ( three on the tree ) which would hang up in low gear and unable to shift it into second. We would have to pull off the road and rasie the hood. There was a small box on the steering wheel shaft which had a couple of fingers or levers working out of the box with shifting rods down to the transmission. We would have to lift one or both ?? of them until they were free. Once we did that we were able to contine down the road shifting through 1st, 2nd, & into third gear.

Also if jack stands are not available then try wooden blocks. Buy or find a four X six inch pole and cut it to fourteen inch lenghts work well and not a lot of expense. Cement blocks have killed people in the past.

This box and assembly gets play and wear causing the fingers to stick and binding between two gears or unable to shift out of 1st. gear. this problem is in this box and not in the transmission.

I heard of folks rigging up a rope or wire from the cab through a pully or two allowing the driver to stop and pull the rope allowing the driver to continue on his way without getting out of the truck to correct.

JDL, Perhaps if you posted a photo of the shift box in question someone could tell you how to proceed. Trying to explain this with words may seem simple to people who know what that problem is but it can also be confusing to you.

Please be careful... Concrete blocks are dangerous enough under a soft tire but with a hard surface like an axle your odds of it shattering just went up 500%. If you ever saw a block mason work, you'd understand the danger.

You're like an adopted son to a lot of people on this forum and we went to bat for you when you asked us to help convince your mom to let you get the truck, so just imagine how terrible it would be if you got hurt, not just for us but your family.

Yes, the shifter box near the end of the steering column is a good suspect. No need to repeat what others have described very well.

Czechman, I think your last paragraph summarizes things perfectly; I'm sure it reflects the sentiment of everyone here.

Harvester

Did I say cement blocks? Sorry if I did. I meant SOLID LIMESTONE blocks, which is just as safe as wood blocks. The ground that the truck is on would be pretty soft, if it wasn't for all of the charcoal, rocks, tree stumps cut off at the ground, and rocks and other stuff that's under that specific location. If it's any consolation to you I have all wheels chocked, and as said before the blocks are solid limestone and I made sure that they're level. Also, the truck is just barely off of the ground, so that the wheels are still touching the ground but not so much as to not spin. Yes, the wheels do spin in opposite directions. I have also learned that the gear box, by messing with the lever on the steering shaft in the truck, and then coming back to the box, that it is not moving everything like it's supposed to. In other words, the lever isn't moving back far enough to allow the rectangular metal piece to move in between the two slots. I'll post some pictures later. To answer the question as to how we got the truck off of the trailer, we just pushed it off. We forgot that it was in gear and it just rolled. That's what made me think that the transmission is out, but I'm not very sure.

I'm uploading pictures as I type this. Not only did I take pictures of the shift box, but I finally got the hand throttle and cowl vent to work!

Got any suggestions now? Shift box. Shift box again Shift box again....again. And the last of the shift box.

Wheels on the ground and chocked! Limestone blocks, huh?

Ok, make sure the side levers on the transmission are in neutral, regardless of where the levers are in the upper box. You should feel a solid detent (notch) when the mechanism inside the transmission slides into neutral- both levers. Loosen the clamps at the top of the rods- at the box in your pictures (they may be stuck), then adjust the two levers in the box, the C shaped levers/forks, until the C openings are aligned, then tighten the clamps on the rods that go to the transmission. When the box-ends are adjusted properly, the driver's shift lever should move freely toward and away from the steering wheel and between the two forks in the box without moving anything inside, or wiggling the shift lever. Put some fresh grease in the box, put the cover back on and try the transmission. If you still have trouble shifting, the trouble may be inside the transmission. The holes in the external side levers may also be badly worn, and cause trouble shifting, even with everything properly adjusted. But it is not uncommon to have trouble shifting one of those transmissions when the engine is stopped.

I don't remember if there are adjustment clamps at the transmission end of the shift rods, but I don't think so.

Another possibility is that the pivot pin in the driver's shift lever may be worn, which allows the lever to wobble around. If the shift lever seems solid, not loose and wobbly, that is probably all right.

Harvester

jdl; as you can see by the pics the two rods/levers/arms are not even at the shift box. I suspect the one on the right next to the firewall needs to go down to make them even...or perhaps the one on the left needs to be pulled up. Try moving either one of them and see if they will move. You may have to give a GOOD tug on them for them to move. If you get either one to move then try to get them even and then go inside the cab and just see if the gear shift will pull "up and down". If the gear shift levers are even under the hood it should pull up and down which makes the gear shift really in neutral. So far so good. If it will do this then you should be able to push the shift leaver up into second gear and down into high with out much effort.

I would try the above simply procedure first and it that don't get you any satisfaction then go under the truck and see if you can grab one of the "ears" that the shifting rods go to and move it back and forth. It may take a little effort. If one moves you can feel it "click" one way then when you move it back it will click again which will be "out of gear' and if you continue moving it until you hear it click again then its in another gear.
One of the little "ears" is reverse and Low gear, and the other "ear" is the second and high gear. Don't PRY on them but don't be afraid to exert a little effort to make them move.
Ideally, from under the truck, you should have both ears "in the middle" of the clicks at that will mean both are "out of gear" which should then put your gear rods even at the little gear box on the steering column.
I know this is a lot but hope it helps. Just keep chipping away at it and you will get it.

Jdl, check your email.

Ok, the above procedures, I've tried all but taking the rods off of the box and moving the box. Come to think of it, the rods, from the way they try to move, it feels like the box is the problem and not the transmission! THANKS GUYS!

Ok, well, my brother helped me and he said that the clutch needed adjusted. That would explain not being able to shift gears. He said that the clutch wasn't disengaging, and that it was hitting the frame rail. That is also true because the pedal travel is about 2-4 inches instead of 3/16 to an inch like it's supposed to be.

Ok, looked back into the manual, it said 3/4"(like I originally thought but wasn't sure so I said 3/16") to an inch, and then I measured the pedal travel, and it was about an inch, instead of my estimation of 2". My question is: What is/could be wrong since my tranny is still in gear, the box is not stuck(I unbolted the rods from the arms on the box) and my clutch's free pedal travel is in the limit? I have tried everything mentioned.

I really need to learn how to measure! , I went out and measured the travel again and it's 1 1/2 inches, not 1 inch. I tried earlier to get the nuts for adjusting the clutch loose and accomplished nothing except for lying on the ground for half an hour. Does anyone have any suggestions for loosening them up because they're awfully hard to get to. They are directly above a cross member on the frame.

Just from what I'm reading, I think you may have the Free Travel of the pedal mixed up with total pedal travel. The Free Travel measurement shown in the manual is just the amout of distance the pedal will move before it begins to disengage the clutch. If the pedal won't go any further than the Free Travel, it could mean that the clutch is stuck due to rust. One way to check would be to remove the transmission cover from the floor pan (which will give you better access to both the trans and the clutch rod), then remove the pentagon shaped cover from the top of the bellhousing. This will give you a good veiw of the clutch operation without having to get under the truck. I can put up a pic of mine if you need to see what I'm talking about, even though mines a '55 2nd, it is similar.

No, I know what the difference is. Anyway, I got back under there and tried to hit it again with a hammer. It now seemed like the linkage wanted to move. I think that this part of the linkage is the culprit. I may be wrong, but it still seems like a good thought. I appreciate the advice and I'd like to see that picture. I'll see what I can accomplish tomorrow.

P.S. I'm talking about the bottom left portion of the picture.

I must have read it wrong. I see what you're talking about, that's the bellcrank for 2-3. Looks pretty rusty, might need a good soaking with some PB. I got to upload the pix, I should have them up in just a few minuits.

Trans cover (mine's a bit different from yours.)
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2421152680092261295VcnFyb
Cover removed
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2661193020092261295wSZabo
Thsi is the inspection cover for the clutch. (don't ask why I painted it blue )
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2250967000092261295UuozGN
Shot of the trans and clutch linkeages, the one with the 2 nuts is the adjuster for the clutch.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2250967000092261295UuozGN

I had tried to get the two nuts loose earlier because my pedal travel is not within the limit, as I had thought it was. It is 1/2 inch at least out of the limit. But I can't get to them to adjust them. I'll look at the pics as soon as they're loaded. THANKS!!!

You have two pictures that are the same posted. The last two.

Ooops!
This is the pic I wanted to post!
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2364502800092261295dCsWFF

Thanks. I'm loading it now. But , I can't find the screws for the inspection plate! , I know they're there, because I found them when I was under the truck earlier.

They'll most likely be Clutch head, or as many call them "Figure 8" screws. The head has a recess shaped like an hourglass.

I didn't know that, but I still can't find them.

Could be buried under rust/crud on the floor, that's not uncommon.

Well, I found them. They're regular flat head screws. Problem is, they're completely pounded in with dirt. So, thankfully, around them is a dentation so I sprayed some pb blaster and when I get under the truck I'll tap them to try to loosen them.

If the clutch is frozen to the flywheel you should still be able to get the gears to move. Jordan, I am not there looking but I would think the little difference in clutch travel your talking about is not big issue, at least right now, and I'd not worry about the adjustment. If the clutch is truly frozen to the flywheel and the tranny is in gear that would explain why you can't get the motor to turn........BUT you said it rolled off the trailer so one of two things has to be....either it rolled off with the clutch frozen and the engine actually turned but won't now since its sitting still, or Second the tranny is NOT stuck in gear and the engine is frozen.....
gosh, I better hush before I get everyone mixed up......

But how come the clutch pedal moves the bar that disengages the clutch? If that was true that the clutch was frozen the pedal wouldn't go down, right? I tried to get the lever to come back up AGAIN for the millionth time and even used the bottom of a sledge hammer(the flat part) to try to pull up on it with more force, but nothing happened except that the levers tried to push the transmission out of gear, like it always does.

Ok, let me think. My transmission OR the linkage is bad. It could also possibly be the clutch. But when the rear was jacked up, and the clutch was pushed in, only one wheel spun, but when it wasn't pushed in, both spun in different directions. So it's probably not the clutch. So, it's either the linkage or the transmission. Do you guys know of ANY way for me to tell if it's the linkage or the transmission?

I'm betting the problem is in the linkage. You can take the two short rods off the lever assemblies on the transmission. Then see if you can move the levers. You should feel the detents as you move the levers when they slide in and out of gear. Both levers will have to be in the out of gear position for the transmission to be truely out of gear. Use the line drawing I sent you as a reference. The area you should be looking at is on the lower right of the page.

Ok, and I do that by removing a pin?

Should be a cotter pin, spring, and flat washer.

Yep, and there's good news and even worse bad news. I just got it off and when I went to the shift box and pulled on the lever, it moved perfectly. But the transmission is STILL in gear and with the screws practically part of the floor access panel I can't get it off to hit the "ear" or arm from above, and I can't do much from below.

911 Stovebolters .......anyone close to JDL????? Five minutes with Jordan will be worth a thousand post

Jordan, don't give up. Its just a learning process.....did we ever determine if the engine is frozen or not....for SURE???

Well, Alvin, if my clutch is bad it may not be disengaging and therefore not taking the pressure off of the engine.