The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Doors Window Track Rollers on a '52

A while back I saw a link describing how some guy (smarter than me) made his own washers (were they really leather?) or rollers for the window track. This is the piece that slides into the track at the bottom of the window and rolls fore and aft when you crank the window handle. Has anybody got any ideas what might work other than cutting up some cow skin and stuffing that mess in the door? I am thinking of some sort of modified nylon sliding glass door rollers.
Also what are the dimensions of those rollers?
Thanks everyone!
Mitch

That was Denny who made his own rollers.

David,
Thanks! I hope he's got some spares.
Mitch

Once again.....anybody got a cool or trick set up to make that drivers side door window go up and down? I am willing to mod the works seeing as though the guts won't be seen lurking in the dark, sharped edged, bowels of the door built by the devil himself. I know it's not a fun place to hang out. Arms all scratched up trying to be a double jointed magician, mystically wishing the parts in their respective little hiding spots. It's just that the rollers or washers that fit into the track at the bottom of the glass are either gone or so worn out it's just a jambin' bad time. I have got a couple of days to get this baby ready for a show on the other side of town and it would be nice if I could just roll up the window normally. It' not cool to be having one hand yanking up on the top of the glass and the other hand trying to crank the handle and shaking the crap out of the door all the while expressing various English language curses in a crowd of fun loving folks.
I tried modifying a screen door roller complete with ball bearings but the size is just too tight. I know some parts places sell the whole darn regulator but the price is a little steep and then we knock out all the fun of swearing at no one in the privacy of our own garage.

I'll be standing by the forum waiting for some amazing tricks to appear that will make my experience a delightful one.

Thanks early on for your help.

Mitch

Mitch I just put the calipers on my roller it is 11/16" in diameter ..how big is yours?

Well SW_Radial, I'm not really sure as they are all beat up. Measuring the height of the track it seems to be 7/8". But as I said I only had pieces of parts. What were yours made of?

Mitch

PS Nice looking truck by the way!

they are made of leather...so it seems by touch an feel ..so I IF IT WERE ME ..I WOULD contact Denny ..maybe he will make ya up 2?..now remeber by my profile IM far from stock ..I have power windows from a mid 70's caddy ...but at the end of the regulator the last 3" of the stock 52 arm is welded on including the roller for the window track.
and I do have 1 installed an works great..I would think ya just a bit big on your roller, remember it basically pushes up ..it does not need to fill the whole channel..gravity is always pushin down on it, so make a bit of room for it to work an lube it well ya should be OK.

Sounds like a plan. I have thought about putting in power windows. But it starts to take away from the old school theme I am trying to preserve. (But it's inside of the door and not that many folks will know.)
Thanks again.

TangoVino,
First off, there taint no easy fix coming out of my posts, secondly, there are no rollers. There are two "posts" that are riveted to the regulator arms that simply slide in the track. They look very much like a flat head or nail head, semi tubular tinners rivet. They have a series of three steps turned in the shank of the post. They each have two .100" thick leather washers installed before the rivet is set. This means that the post has to be removed and replaced to replace the leather. I can almost guarantee that the posts will have a flat spot on both sides where it has been sliding in the channel 56 years, more than likely without any lubrication since new. The washers are meant to ride on either side of the track when it is slid over the posts. The leather serves as a bumper or guide and also as a wick for lubrication. All of this dries out over the decades and I doubt if very many were ever lubricated after they left the factory. Remember now, these weren’t supposed to last 56 years!
There are a couple of pictures of the parts in my album, try here; http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2924571610098611668SAUVbW

Sorry but no, I do not have replacement parts for these, I found very little interest when I brought this up previously, so it simply did not warrant any further production of the parts. After the research was finished on mine, I had planned to make up kits to restore the regulator post and would have been supplied with full instructions. This would have required a short production run of the posts and leathers.
There are nylon roller kits offered by some of the vendors. I have a set on the shelf that I bought to analyze. They apparently were meant to replace the original posts. I do not know how they perform since I am keeping my restoration factory original.
I do know that the window regulators as they were originally designed in my truck work very smooth and with very little effort with the new parts I’ve installed.
It was a lot of work but well worth the effort. If the gears are shot then the only thing to do obviously is replace the entire regulator. Luckily regulator was in very good condition and the posts and leather was all that was worn.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL
Pitts 38OscarBravo, G’day

I was able to use nylon replacement rollers with a threaded shaft from the H.E.L.P. board at the local Carquest store. After grinding off the orignal steel "posts" and drilling a new hole, I was hooked up. Take the track down to your auto parts and take a look.

Denny, Thank you very much for your response. As I said above, I do remember seeing a posting regarding this topic but couldn't find it. (Thanks to 59TOW for mentioning your name)
I have been fiddling with junk from an old box my father had when I was a child. He kept every odd piece of hardware. I have found a great number of odd pieces that have found a useful purpose in many chores throughout my adult life. Owning Ol Yeller has allowed me to apply artistic license and a bit of imagination to resolve a myriad of dilemmas. Let me say here that I am trying to leave our truck as original as possible within the constraints of a limited budget. My build plan (or restore plan) dictates that I only modify if all else fails, but the modification can be reversed, by a succeeding owner, (or myself) to original at a later date.
I have seen replacement regulators but have shied away from them because of poor overseas quality or the aforementioned budget. I have to admit though I am taking a closer look at that direction.
To gtow69: I am heading to the FLAPS tomorrow to seek and possess the nylon rollers so I can get out to the car show. I will however make sure the parts I install will allow a return to original in the future.

Thanks to everyone for the wonderful advise.

Mitch

Denny,

I just re-read you post above and realize that what I am looking at on my truck is exactly as you mentioned. THERE IS a flat spot on the rivet. Looking at your pictures I see now how the mechanism works.
I believe I can make something that will work. (apologies to the purists) I will try to engineer it to avoid causing permanent damage to the regulator.

Thanks again!

Mitch

Just a note on purchasing new I conversed with an Epay vendor that sells a very reasonably priced pair of regulators. His words exact copy from the e-mail...

Well, my supplier actually has quite a few, but I haven't been selling them because I have gotten a lot of complaints about them recently. They seem to be stripping out as soon as you install it and try to roll the window up. If you want a pair, I can sell you one, but I can't guarantee as to their quality at this point. I'm not sure when they will get a new shipment in.

My advice make sure you buy from a reputable vendor because the cheap imports are exactly that, cheap.

(Denny suggested) I took the best 2 of my leather guides to my local boot shop (leather shop) and they made me the whole set for both windows 12$.
You have to wet them down a little to install them over the rivets but after they dry out and you grease them up they stay in place like original.Your windows will work fine as long as the rivets dont have a flat side. [Thanx Denny]
Good luck!

Amazing how smooth they are isn't it. If the posts have a little flat worn on them that may put a little more drag on things but they should still work real nice. If you gave it the finishing touch and replaced the window run channels then it truly does have that new car feel again.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

For you guys doing the nylon rollers, they are easy to make yourself if you have a lathe (either metal working or wood working) or a drill press. I just buy nylon washer stock from the hardware store, chuck them in the lathe using a bolt as a mandrel, and turn them with a parting tool until they are the right contour. Nylon turns very nicely.

I did this for a BMW power window regulator that the nylon washers were no longer available for. Instead of replacing the rivet entirely, I drilled out the peened over portion and mig welded it back up quickly when I put it back together, quenching it in water so the nylon didn't melt. Surprisingly, the BMW mechanism used almost exactly the same track system as the stovebolt system, just with nylon instead of leather.

If your have access to a lathe…... then you could do it this way, and maintain the originality of the part as it came from the factory. No welding necessary, it’s the same as the original and can be restored again and again.
Might be some repeats from a previous thread but we do have some new guys coming on board every day: http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2665393000098611668APjLnz
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I think that I posted this before, but I will repeat it. I bought nylon rollers from my classic truck supplier. I think they are for a slightly more modern truck, maybe a TF truck. The shank is a little smaller than the original hole for the original shaft so the hole has to be welded up and redrilled. You then just use the rivet tool to secure it. The nylon wheel rides on the edge of the track and takes a lot of friction out of the mechanism. My windows work really well.

Sorry Fred, you know what a nit-picker I am. I just don’t want anyone to get the impression that the original design didn’t work well and requires a strongman to crank up a window. So with the new posts, (copies of the original) new leather washers (copies of the original) and a dab of lithium grease, (copy of the original) both of my windows are extremely friction free. You can literally take the knob betwixt your thumb and forefinger and roll the window up or down effortlessly. If the bias spring is in good shape it takes care of the weight of the window. Both of the window channels, weather strip and cats whiskers were new also and installed with the same methods as the factory used, i.e., staples in the original holes for the anti-rattle strips, spring clips and two flat head screws in the original holes for the channels.
Even though I have been using them for about a year now, I just this minute went out to the garage in the middle of posting this reply and tried the two finger operation on both windows just to make sure that it wasn't a figment of my minageration or wishful thinking on my part. And yes they do operate very smooth, with two fingers.

And by doing a restoration instead of a fix there is no welding on the arms, the regulator stays as it was for the next guy. Judging from what I heard from the original owners, the truck was used on a regular if not daily basis up until a couple of years ago. Since the last set of posts and leathers lasted 57 years, probably with out lubrication since it left the factory I might add, I would expect the new ones are going to far out last me and I’d bet outlast those nylon rollers with the Aluminum posts that the vendors are selling.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Hey Denny,
Quick question (you old nit-picker, you), what is used to attach the rubber and metal trim strip to the verticle closing edge of the quarter glass vent window on a'51. It has what looks like holes for rivets but if they aren't done correctly the glass channel won't fit correctly. (Don't ask how I know this.) If you ned more info on what I'm talking about I'll send a picture when I get home.
Mitch

Sorry Mitch, I can only attest to what I’ve found on my 1950 and of course it doesn’t have quarter windows.
This does sound like it has been discussed before so maybe one of those involved will check in with an answer for your.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

You might check out this web site - lots of hardware - maybe you can find something that will work.
http://www.mcmaster.com/

I'll move this to the top as it may come in handy for new viewers. I bought a new window regulator to bypass the issue of how it was attached to the glass. Thanks to the guys above in enlightening me that there are no rollers on the regulator, just leather shims. I finished the install and put everything back together. I'm now done with the doors. Yahoo! I have found that the replacement glass is just a bit wide and it is binding in the channels. I will live with that for the time being. Thanks again for all the positive remarks and support.