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SBC problem - Cannot start or hold a charge. Possible electrical drain?

Starter checks out. Alternator checks out. New battery cables. All connections/grounds cleaned.

Jump it from another car (running) with flimsy cables and it will hardly turn over. Jumped it with heavy duty cables and it starts right up.

Ran it for a half hour. Voltmeter reads 14.6 +/- when running.

Stop truck and it won't restart. Not enough power for even the headlights.

Had battery checked. Dead and will not hold a charge. Battery is 2 years old, admittedly truck hardly used.

Possibility of a drain? Only place I can think are the courtesy lights in the door and overhead.

Going to put in a new battery but am concerned that there still might be a drain. Any ideas would be welcomed.


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You answered your own question.
"Had battery checked. Dead and will not hold a charge".
If it wont hold a charge,the battery's shot. If it would hold a charge,I'd say start looking for a short somewhere.
I've been buying those cheap Wal-Mart batteries, and they seem to hold up just long enuf to where the warranty expires.

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Thanks.
This is a 2 year old AC Delco battery. Ironically I have a Wal-Mart type cheapo in my Malibu and its been there for 7 years. I guess you win some and you lose some!


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After you put a battery in it and it's fully charged, pull the positive cable and put an ammeter between the battery and cable. If it's showing current flow you have a parisitic load somewhere that will continue to drain the battery. If that happens you get to play detective.


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I have to agree with Marty....Bad battery. Probably a dead cell and once that happens your done, get another battery. My experience has been once an automotive battery goes completly dead, nine times out of ten that battery will never preform like its supposed to if at all, regardless of the age. I sold interstate batteries for years and have seen this time and time again with week old or less batteries. If you have a battery on something that isnt used often and will sit idle for a couple months at a time you need to charge it at least once a month to keep the battery active.
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Take the battery back to where you bought it... it's probably guaranteed and you can get it replaced for a pro-rated charge. I had an Auto Zone battery die early on me and I got a new one for like $7


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It acts like a defective battery. I some times take the battery out of the vehicle. Clean the battery conections and then charge the battery on the work bench over night ot maybe even twenty four hours. You then can load test the battery on the bench or put the battery back in the vehicle. if it starts then you have another problem. disconect the postitve cable until you find out where to drain on the battery is coming from.

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Some great help guys, thank you.
Tiny in your post, once I get the new battery in and disconnect the POS cable, should the truck be running. Or is it done with the engine off?


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Sometimes the diodes in the alternator go leaky if you can't find a drain anywhere else.


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from the Inliners web page, tech article
finding shorts:: http://www.inliners.org/

Find That Short the Easy Way!
-6NHeat
Nothing can be more frustrating or confusing than trying to find a short in you car's electrical system. Especially when it's not enough to blow a fuse but still drains your battery! Obviously, if you find a blown fuse, replace it, turn the key on, and the fuse blows immediately you've found the circuit within your car's electrical system that the short is in. However, if the draw does not create enough current to blow a fuse, than we have to find out which circuit it's in to fix it. Before I get started, my intention in this Tech Tip is not to teach Electrical Systems and Electronics. Instead, I just hope that this article will give anybody a systematic approach to finding a short. So lets get started... First, lets make sure that you have a short! Electrical systems have a specific route for electricity to travel along and any change from this route causes problems. If electricity can find an easier route it will always take it. So lets find out if the electricity in your car is finding a ground sooner than it's suppose to... What we're going to do is take a test light and attach the clip end to the negative battery cable and put the tip on the negative battery post. Then we're going to remove the

negative battery cable making sure we don't touch the test light. Now we haven't broken the electrical connection here. All we're doing is letting the current, if any, flow out of the negative battery post, through our test light to see if it illuminates, and continue on along the negative battery cable to the short. Word of caution, If you're attempting this on a computer controlled car it is very important not to break the connection of the test light to the negative battery post.

By not breaking the connection, the computer will maintain its learned driving strategy in the Keep Alive Memory (KAM). It will also ensure your computer will not have to go to factory baseline and relearn controlling your car's engine for maximum fuel economy and performance. While we're on the subjects of computer control, module equipped cars have a small parasitic drain caused by the modules' KAM. This is normal and module or modules can draw 10-21 milliamps (mA) with the key off. However...

If you have a parasitic draw that is in the milliamp range and is beyond normal specs, you will have to use an Amp Probe for a Digital Volt Ohm Meter (DVOM) to diagnose this and the method below may not work due to the very low current draw. But let's get back to those major shorts that give us all those headaches...

Oh! by the way, a DVOM can be used in place of a test light. Just ensure your leads are in the proper connections to measure Amps. Using this tool will not only tell you if you have a current draw when you're not suppose to, but will also tell you how many Amps are being drawn.

Okay, you've confirmed you have a short, now how do you find it? The first and easiest test is disconnect the alternator and see if the test light goes out or the DVOM display changes. Often old or worn out alternators ground themselves internally causing a short. If it does you've found your short and repair or replace the the alternator or appropiate components. If the test light remains lit or the amperage on the DVOM does not change, you have to try and start isolating which circuit within your car's wiring has the short. This can be done by pulling fuses one at a time. A fuse is nothing more than system protection. All the current that flows through a circuit must go through the fuse. By pulling a fuse we've created an open and current can no longer flow. Continue doing this until the light goes out or the DVOM display changes showing no current draw. Once you've found the circuit that has the short you must find where in that circuit the short is located. It's always best to take the least intrusive method to diagnose. Besides, who wants to tear out the dash or remove the interior just to trace a wire. So this is where a simple tool you can make comes in very handy...

When electricity flows through a wire it creates magnetism. We're going to use this magnetism to find our short! Many tool vendors and auto parts stores sell short detectors. The one in my tool box is from MAC. It's convenient for me because it also has an audible alarm which I can hear in a noisy shop environment. I'm pretty sure NAPA sells one also. The tool to the right consists of a 10 Amp circuit breaker with buzzer, wire leads, clips, and a compass. But for our purposes we're going to make our own which I believe is better than the ones you can buy outright.

To make our short detector, we'll need the following items:

1 x 20 Amp circuit breaker
2 x alligator clips
2 x spade connectors
2 x 2 foot pieces of 18ga wire
4 x 1 foot pieces of 18ga wire
1 x magnetic compass of any type
*modify length of wires to meet your needs*

MAC's ET251 SHORT CIRCUIT FINDER. Quickly locates short circuits in all 12v automotive electrical systems. Eliminates the need to remove upholstery and floor coverings. Operates through metal posts, panels, and other obstructions. Simple hooking to affected fuse posts; induction-type needle indicator pinpoints shorts. Packaged in high impact plastic box; schematic included


(Not To Scale)
Connect the pieces together as shown. This should allow you to hook your tool up in place of a fuse no matter what type of fuses your car uses. The reason I recommend a 20 Amp circuit breaker instead of a 10 Amp one is it allows current to flow longer and thus building more magnetism. This is important especially if the wire that the short is in is buried under items like the carpet, rocker cover, door panel, pillars, etc. The more magnetism we can build the easier it will be to pick it up with our compass.

At this point it helps to know how the wiring loom or wires run for the circuit that has the short. A schematic is very helpful here especially if it has component locations. If you cannot find one or your vehicle is older you will have to trace the wire(s) from the fuse on...but this is not that hard and you'll see why. The reason we want to know which way the wire is going from the fuse box is because we're going to use the magnetism that is built buy the electricity along that wire to locate the short. Place your tool into your fuse box or where you pulled the burnt fuse from instead of the fuse and turn the key on to the RUN position. Now what's going to happen is electricity is going to flow to the short. Because we have a circuit breaker in there instead of a fuse we're allowing magnetism to build along the wire. As the current flows through the circuit breaker it starts to heat up (careful the tool may get very hot). The bi-metal strip inside the circuit breaker will eventually bend away from the contact breaking the circuit and creating and open before any damage can be done. This is always associated with an audible "CLICK" from the circuit breaker. With an open, no current can flow through the circuit breaker and the shorted circuit. With no current flowing, the bi-metal strips cools very quickly and reforms itself back to it's original shape and touches the contact allowing current to flow and once again creating magnetism.

We're going to use this magnetism and our compass to locate the short. Here is how the this works... A wire (conductor) will build magnetism. A short will not. So we put our compass along the wire or wire loom and the current flowing through the wire is building magnetism. This magnetism will draw the north seeking arrow on the compass towards it (one way or another). We leave our compass in place until we hear the "CLICK" from the circuit breaker. When the circuit breaker opens the magnetism will be lost and the north seeking arrow of the compass will deflect back towards the magnetic pole of the earth momentarily. This deflection is important! Because once we get to our short there will be very little or no deflection at all. So after each click and deflection we move the compass about 6-12 inches along the wire, wait, and watch for the needle to deflect as the circuit breaker opens and closes. We continue doing this until we come to a portion of the wire where the needle is not being drawn towards the wire (weak or no magnetism) and there's no deflection of the compass needle when the circuit breaker opens. Congratulations! you've found the area where the short is located. However, you still have not found the short, but at least you know where to dig in. Expose that portion of the wire and locate the short in the wire. Here's a hint - if there's a bunch of wires there, shorts create heat. So look for the hot wire, hot metal, or hot component. Then look for any wire or component that may be broken, cracked, smashed, exposed, or punctured.

Now that you've found the short, repair it by splicing in a new piece of wire, fixing, or replacing the shorted component. You can cut & solder, use a butt contector, or electrical tape if you have nothing else. At one time automobile manufactures only recommend solder, however, the quality of butt connectors are so good today that many allow this type of repair. Now that you have the short out of your system verify your repair, replace the fuse if necessary, and pat yourself on the back for a job well done.

That's all there's to it folks. Go for it!





Jim & Caroline
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Originally Posted by olblu49
Some great help guys, thank you.
Tiny in your post, once I get the new battery in and disconnect the POS cable, should the truck be running. Or is it done with the engine off?

Engine off. That way your charging system doesn't come into play. I said positive cable but either should work. If you have a parasitic draw it may not be much so a multi-meter is what I would use if I were doing the test. It'll give you a much more accurate reading than a standard auto ammeter. Unless you have a sterio or some such gadget that has a parasitic draw built into it you should show no current flowing at all with the key off. If you show a draw start pulling fuses until the draw goes away. That'll show you the circuit the draw is coming from. Good luck.


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I have a multimeter. Is there any particular range it should go on?
Jim and Caroline, good run down. Appreciate it. Will copy it and print it to take with me.
Bill


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go to the inliners site cause they have pictures


Jim & Caroline
The highway is for gamblers, better use your good sense."
Gooday-that's my 1¢ answer due to the lousy economy ~ cause I ain't got - no . mo . doe

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Here is the latest done today. Put in a new battery. Did the cable/battery terminal check with a test light. With the POS end disconnected, a clamp on the cable and a probe on the battery POS post I had a bright light on my tester. Checked all the lights, turn signals, four way flashers, heater radio to make certain nothing was on. Removed all the auxiliary bulbs in the door, dome and glove box lights. Ran the test again but now the light on my tester was about a third as bright, just glowing but also pulsating on/off. Started to think about the clock. Pulled the fuse for the clock and the dash lights and ran the test again. When I put the probe into the battery post the test light glowed very faintly and went off.
I removed it and tried it right away and no light. I waited 30 seconds tried it again and the light came on very faint for 2 seconds and went out. The cycle repeated. I then tried it with the NEG cable/post and no light at all.
I am wondering why on the POS set up the test light comes on very faint and goes out while I am attached.
I tried the test on the POS of another vehicle and nothing happened.


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Could it be because you have so many POS parts? grin

I couldnt resist...


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What happened when you tried to start it with the new battery??
Good one rustednuts...LOL..
Ken

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Started right away with the new battery. Good one indeed, love it!


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have batt checked,,if OK,,remove cable install test lite from batt to cable with all ele off if you have a lite you have draw unhook wire until lite goes out you have found draw...doc


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