The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk what can i tow with a one ton?

i work on boats for a living and have had a few side jobs hauling all over the tristate area.
ive been borrowing a buddys '06 F450 and it is great. thing is that i dont have a 100k for a truck and trailer. i have a 38 foot tripple axle and i want to know if i can build a pre 55 one ton to handle that. loaded wouldnt be over 17,500lb.
heres what i was thinking.....51 one ton panel with a 500cid caddy motor. have my welder weld up a nice hitch and be on the road.
what do you guys think?

jaguarsurfer,


Don't forget to engineer some method to stop this combination safely.

Stuart

Is the trailer GVW 17,500 or the combined GVW 17,500? Either way the load is at least 9,000 more than than the rated capacity of a 3800 panel.

The 500 Cad should be plenty to make it move, but unless you re-gear the rear you're looking at spinning that low speed torque monster pretty fast moving that truck at highway speeds.

But the big worry in my mind is stopping it. That 1-ton panel is rated at 8,800 lbs if memory serves. The old style brakes aren't up to stopping that load. Sure you're going to add a brake controller and expect the trailer brakes to handle most the work, but when a wire breaks or some other failure occurs you're in trouble if your truck can't stop the load.

I'm not an expert on big trailers, but I'd expect a three-axle trailer nearly 40 feet long to be a gooseneck type. That big of trailer on a ball is going to need a class four load leveler hitch at the very least.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, but engineer it to work safely! Can you build it to handle this safely? Probably. Would it be the cheapest way to do this? I doubt it.

The 500 Cad is a wide motor. You'll be moving the steering box to have enough room for the motor and manifolds. Converting to power steering is probably the best answer there.

yes i know. was trying to figure if the original frame and what not are up to the job. bigger motor and bigger brakes are a sure thing.

is it just easyer to mount everything on a mordern frame? never seen that done where it looked good though

I can stuff 12 one thousand pound cows in a steel 24" gooseneck trailer and pull it just fine with a 3/4 ton truck with a 350 and a 3 speed tranny.

Trailer alone probably weighs 4,000+ lbs, and once you pack 12,000 lbs of moos in the back, i'm towing something like 16,000lbs.

Not sure i'd want to pull that much weight with a bumper hitch, tho.. and you'd definitely want to have electric brakes on the trailer.

NOTE: The last 12 inches or more on the rear of an AD 1 ton panel frame is nothing more than a channel iron extension. It's not a strong piece to be hanging a hitch from. Some serious re-engineering will be needed in that area,
Scott

Before I started on my 48 truck I sat down and estimated what everything would cost, then multiply by 2 or more to account for all the little things.
I knew before I started that I could spend less money on a new crew cab F350 Diesel than I will have in my old Chevy truck when done. The benefit of building your own is that you can use the best parts and design things to suit your needs and wants. When done you should have a more durable vehicle, and something you can work on and understand from one end to the other and from inside out.
I am building it to haul anything I would want to hook behind it, not to much different than what you want.

Grigg

Add sway bars and modern shocks, too. That trailer is going to want to whip you around.

I think you are right that its hard to make it look right on a modern frame. Might be worth trying it though.

Most newer trucks have wider track width. I've seen guys swap the IFS from a '63 to '87 pickup under something like the panel. Starting in '71 disk brakes are available. Starting in '72 they are all disk. Problem is the track is too wide, and even if its narrowed you may have trouble finding wheels that fit and look right.

Its probably easier to fit a newer axle under the rear. I have a 1-ton with a 14-bolt Chevy rear under it. That type of swap should not be too hard to pull off.

On the other hand the same basic rear the panel has now (if its original) was used up until '71 or '72. Gears more compatible with modern high way speeds can be found, and I wonder if the brakes from a later 1-ton might be an improvement over the '51? I don't know if you can even swap them. I know upgrading huck brakes to bendix poses some problems that are easiest to solve by swapping housings. This might be a similar situation.

The frame on a 1-ton is seven inches tall between the axles and is made of 1/4-inch steel. I'm not an engineer and won't say if that's stout enough or not. It does look very similar to what is under my '89 1-ton, but that truck is only rated at 9,000 lbs and would also be challenged by your trailer.

Scott is correct that the last bit of frame on that panel (and my '50 1-ton flatbed) is wimpy stuff just there to mount a bumper. Frame modifications might be required to mount an adequate hitch.

What kind of hitch is on your trailer? What is the tongue weight and ball size?

I mentioned my 1-ton flatbed. I have a 500 Cadillac/Turbo 400 I plan to put in that truck, and then I want to mount a utility box on the rear and use this truck as my primary tow vehicle. If I understand the rules correctly pulling a trailer over 10,000 GVWR requirest that the driver have a commercial license, so most my planning has been to come in at 9,990 on the trailer.

In addition to the original 1-ton frame (I have two of those) I also have a '72 3/4-ton frame in the yard for comparison. That frame is not as flat across the top as the '50 frame. While taht won't stop you from mounting the body, it would mean more complicated bracket building. And of course the 3/4-ton wheel base is only 127 inches, so it would be too short under a panel (though until now I'd not thought of trying it).

The panel body complicates things because its harder to pull a gooseneck, but otherwise we may have some very similar challenges here.

the biggest boat that would reallisticly be on the back would be about 12500lbs (saw that typo....not 17500) but would like to over engineer to be safe. most of the hauls would be under 10,000lb(load and trailer) though.
welding up a rear frame and hitch to handle the load is no proplem...i think.( have a welder that can do ANYTHING)
gears/axles could be swaped in to handle the rig...right?
disk brakes of coarse.
the trailer is a hitch mount. all six wheels have disks.
saw a pic on this site with a 1 ton pulling a airsream and it got me thinking....

I saw an old ad for Airstream showing it being pulled by a bicycle. They were just trying to indicate that they were light enough to be pulled by anything.

Brings to mind a thing that happened up here a couple years back.
New 3/4 ton truck, 4x4, pulling a big ol tripple axle RV trailer. Truck was rated for the load capacity, had the towing power & brakes it needed & all that jazz. However, the trailer empty weight was up at those limits, & very long as well.
So it seems that they were haulin booty up I-5 and the trailer started to get jiggy with the truck & rapidly turned into a case of the tail wagging the dog. Long story short, they lost it, rolled over in the middle of the highway, crossed into the oncoming lanes, & the resulting mess caused the death & severe injuries of some folks in other cars.

What's my point? Figure what your max weight will be, and plan for at least 10% over the max.
When hauling a heavy trailer with a light, short frame truck, a 5th wheel is better than a bumper hitch as the tail cant wag the dog in that configuration. If you're gonna build the truck to the task, may as well go for broke.

Good luck & have fun!

If that is the pic I think it is, that guy put an IFS from a 3/4- or 1-ton with disk brakes on the front of his. It was more work than he expected but he was pretty happy with that part of the project.

I don't remember what he did in the rear, but I want to say it didn't have the original rear when he bought it.

And he was running a small block 400 with a turbo 400 and I think had some cooling problems.

He may have reported having some difficulty pulling that trailer but I don't recall any details.

12,500 feels more reasonable that 17,500... From a licensing standpoint around here its what its built to handle, not what load you have, that determines if you need the commercial license.

I know very little here but I did a one-time pull of a 30 foot vintage travel trailer loaded with tools with my F150 short bed also fully loaded, about 200 miles to my project house. The trailer brakes were restored and a proper brake control was installed on the tow vehicle which has modern brakes. Years ago I added an extra leaf on this truck and that really helps it carry loads well. A squirrelly death ride would surely be in store without anti-sway, load leveling tow hitch which shifts the load off the rear axle of the tow vehicle. It occurred to me that I might add air rides to my 3600 dump to help it carry heavy loads better. Certainly you could do this with an old panel and give it a very sweet ride while pulling a trailer. However, it is my understanding that rear axle bearings have a load capacity as well so that could be an issue.

In the future I want to take a trip with the old tin can trailer but wonder if my tow vehicle is a little undersized. An issue for another day but you piqued my interest with this posting...
Another country heard from...

Much as we all love old trucks here - I gotta say this sounds like a BAD idea.

Towing a trailer this big brings up several issues. Brakes, tires, cooling, springs, electrical load and SAFETY.

By the time you get through upgrading everything on an old Suburban enough to pull that monster trailer safely you would have been money ahead to find something more modern to start with. Whether or not you're pulling a gooseneck, I would strongly reccomend something with dual rear wheels. They add stability and give you 2 extra tires back there in the event of a blowout.

Again, we all love the classics - but give this some SERIOUS thought!

Guy

Thats a tall order for any pre55. I think I would figure out a way to put a modern 1-ton chassis/running gear under one. It would be a lot of work but a real high cool factor. Someone on this site widened the fenders on an earlier truck and it turned out very nice (sorry can't remember who at this time).

Build it Buddy

i think u need a transmission with a granny gear in it or somthing even lower and a tall gear in the rear end i have a 1964 chevy with a 1 ton 4 on the floor an a granny gear an a 1 ton rear dont no the rear gear but she well pull