The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Is this a truck or car engine?

I cannot seem to clear up if the engine in my 54 Chevy is a 235 Thriftmaster, or 235 Blue Flame.

Believe me, I wouldn't be cluttering our forum with ANOTHER engine number question if I hadn't tried finding this out for myself. Not even my Master Parts Catalog or Shop Manual clear this up.

I have:

1) The engine block serial number - 0415156T54Z - etched into a machined surface located just aft of the distributor (I do know the T is for the Tonawanda Plant).

2) Engine block casting number - 3835913 GM23 - cast into the block forward of the distributor. Some sites imply the "3835913" portion indicates a "First Series 1955 head."

3) And then there's this third number - C0N1 G164 - cast into the block just aft of the starter.

What the h--- do I have here? :confused:

Cheers from NC!

the difference would be that the car version might have hydraulic lifters, otherwise they're the same deal

Bill

It's pretty ironic that I found this today. This was the first I heard of it and I was going to do a post. blue flame

600 bucks, not a bad deal.. at first I noticed the 6,000 and thought.........whoa

The serial number says (to me anyway) that it is a "Regular" 115HP engine (e.g. no heavy duty clutch, no power steering, et cetera), orginally outfitted with a stick (as opposed to a powerglide).

These were used in all Cars with manual trannies (except for the Corvette) and some of the lighter Trucks (eg 1/2 - 1 ton). If you had a truck, you could order the heavier duty stuff if you wanted.

IIRC, the G164 is a date code -- I think -- that suggests that the block was cast July 16, 1954.

So, to answer your question: My vote is thriftmaster.

Have you tried the VIN decoder at American Classic? Try this. Also you can try Keith's online Chevy manuals here. The Z indicates the standard 235 CAR engine.

They also used the "Z" engines in Light Trucks.

Yeah, cast July 16, 1954. The CON1 means it was cast on #1 mold conveyor at Tonawanda.

The "T54Z" is the first listing in my engine ID book (for trucks only). It's a 1954 235 plain and simple.
Scott

If it's a truck engine the original timing gear would have been aluminum. The car engines used a phenolic gear. That's the only difference.

The only "light truck" in which the Z engine would have been used was the sedan delivery, which is really a car.

Hey, Fredstev:

No.1 Conveyor in Tonawanda?

Where the heck did you find THAT information? That's getting down to some details! Must be some library you have.

Chris in NC

So, it looks like from Keith's online Chevy manuals then (thanks Frank) my original Blue Flame would have had a "ZE" at the end also, because this car also has the original power steering.

So sometime in it's history, an owner swapped out the Blue Flame. Anyway, this engine is strong and climbs the Appalachians like a mountain goat! Think I'll keep it. Besides, a 2-bolt valve cover probably leaked pretty badly.

Fredstev and Brendan, thanks for the casting date code and mold conveyor information (where'd you get that?).

Thanks everyone for all this help.

PS: I'm doing some "body" maintenance to clear up some minor blistering blemishing the previous resto in 1998. I've been trying the POR-15 stuff talked about in Cars and Parts last month and it works really well.

Cheers from Chris in NC!

No library, I worked at the Chevrolet Saginaw grey iron foundry for 36 years. At our place the 6 cylinder blocks came off of #2 conveyor during the period I was there. I think that the service six was produced on the old 7 conveyor. Our small block V8's were poured on #1 and #3 conveyors.

Bear in mind that GM (and other auto manufacturers) needed to be able to identify the source of their castings both at the engine plant and later in the vehicle. There are also shift markers and in some instances, the hour of the day the casting was poured. At our place, a flathead 8-32 screw in the pattern meant day shift, and a round head meant 2nd shift.

THANK YOU ! I've been wondering about that for 30 years now....

-Nate

FREDSTEV:

36 years? Man, the cars you must have seen in your career! I'd wager you'd enjoy John Robertson's "A Pictorial History of Chevrolet, 1940-1954." ISBN 1-880524-29-5. It's full of GM archives photos we don't usually get to see unless they are in the Taillights page of Cars and Parts.

Chris in NC

whotmewory - thanks for the book info. I'll check into it.

Just to clear up any confusion on these engine numbers and identifiers - I was a patternmaker at the Saginaw grey iron foundry. All the numbers and identification stuff that we dealt with was for identifying a CASTING and the date that it was cast. With just a few exceptions, marine and service parts engines, all of our output was destined for Flint, MI. Some times, these castings would sit around for weeks, or maybe even a month or so before being machined and having a ENGINE number stamped into them.

We had to be able to identify the shift, date of casting, pattern number, and part number on our castings so if there was a problem at the assembly and machining plant, or later, out in the field, we could pin down the source of the problem.

Patterns and core boxes wear from constant exposure to mold sand. A worn pattern will produce a "smaller" casting in many detail areas that may not have machining cleanup stock. Just the opposite with a core box - a worn one will produce bigger cores that introduces another set of problems.

I guess the point of this is, don't mix up casting information with machining and production information. The stamped engine number is of much more use to the customer than casting numbers.

There, I won't bore you guys any more with this stuff.