The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Welding question

I have a new set of 16 inch artillery wheels for my project, thanks to Stovebolter steveg, one of which has a couple broken hubcap retainer clips. I have more clips that I want to weld on to the wheel center.

I have a Lincoln Pro MIG 140 welder and not much practice or experience. I do have the welder setup for MIG welding with sheilding gas. I am looking for advice on how to go about this. The wheel is pretty heavy and the clip is not. I don't have any clips to practice on and I don't want to burn through the clip trying to get a solid weld.

Thanks for any advice.

I don't know beans about the artillery wheels, but the AD stock rims all had the clips riveted on, fyi.

(I can't weld myself, but I used to run a manuacturing company that made steel products, and I had to proof a lot of engineering drawings.) We used to specify spot welds for products with steel tabs. These tabs were used for anchoring our product in concrete - but they were about the same gauge steel and size as the clips on AD trucks. The spot welds were spec'd rather than standard MIG welds because they added less heat to the process and caused less warpage to the underlying structure.

My advice is to get some scrap and practice on something other than your desirable artillary wheels. I'm sure you can get pick up a scrap rim from a local salvage yard on the cheap. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Bill,

I know you didn't ask for welding safety advice, but since you state you had minimal practice and experience, I thought I'd throw this out.

Make sure the wheels don't have any tires on them when you weld em up.

Having read this, I'm sure it sounds so logical it's silly, but a good buddy of mine almost lost an arm and half of his face making a "quick and simple" repair on a garden tractor or small trailer wheel. The additional tire pressure from the added heat, blew the tire and wheel to bits.

Up until that happened, I can't say I would have thought about it.

I think I would go round up some rivets. The cap clips are probly made from some kind of spring steel and will distort when welded.

I added some clips to aftermarket wheels on my 48 3/4 ton truck and I used self tapping panhead screws to fasten them on. Places that sell roofing tin sell these screws to join the lap on roof panels and they are about 3/8" long with a small drill bit on the point. I did pre drill the wheels since the steel is pretty hard and I didnt want to break a screw in the wheel. The advantage is, I can move the clips back to the original wheels if I decide to go back. ttod is right. If you get the clips too hot, they will loose their spring.
Ralph

drill a hole in the wheel where the clip will go(if not one already), clamp clip to wheel, turn wheel around & fill up hole with weld. use a fairly low setting, done deal,brian

Thanks everyone. The clips are riveted on these wheels as well. I had to drill the front half of the rivet out to get the old clip off. Punching out the remainder of the old rivet should be easy. I guess I can try the fill from behind method once and see how it works. I did look at a thread in the archives where people talked and one person documented on his web site methods for using screws or small bolts to attach the clips to the wheels.

I never would have thought about the tires either. Luck would have it the tires are not on the rims. Thanks for mentioning it even though it seemed logical, you never know who might find that tip very handy in the future.

I didn't think of trying to use a replacement rivet. Do you just peen them down?

Thanks, I will let you know what I do. I want to get them finished this weekend.

I'd have to go with 64fleet's suggestion. This type of weld is called a "plug weld". The only thing I would do different is that I would put the hole in the clip instead of the wheel. For me it's easier to weld the "thin to the thick" and it's easier to see what you're doing. I would also suggest doing as Kim said, and find something scrap to set your welder with. I've done quite a bit of welding and I still like to grab some scrap and get everything set before I weld the finished product.

You've probably already figured this out but, when welding pieces of different gauge, your power/speed settings should be set to the thinner gauge metal otherwise you risk burning right thru the thin stuff. You'll obviously not have much penetration on the thicker stuff but when you're talking about clips that hold a lightweight hubcap on, no big deal.
-David

Bill - There are lots of good ideas here. But my advice is to take the wheels to a local welding shop. You can always find a guy that will weld them up for $20. Maybe they charge $40-60/hr. Even if it takes an hour. The weld will be right and you wont have to get new clips if you scew up.

Its always a good idea to hand over the job to someone that has experience and does it all day long. You can practice on less crucial parts, but you will never be as good as a guy that does it every day.

If you make one mistake, and it's very easy. The cost will be much more than just having someone do it for you.

It's not shameful to get profesional help. It's just the smart thing to do.

Just put them on with screws. Save the welder for things that need to be welded.

As pointed out, spring steel loses it's springiness when heated. Weld it on there and all you have is a piece of mild steel welded to your wheel that is going to bend when you put a hubcap on. Then you can grind the weld off and put another clip on right.

You definitely want to rivet them or screw them on.

When you get some experience with the MIG, you will see that there are problems creating plug welds that join through very small holes. From experience, I usually want a hole of about 5/16" to create a plug weld attachment. Anything smaller and your puddle current can jump to the edge of the top material and not penetrate the bottom piece.

Well,

I decided to rivet them on. I picked up some rivets and a rivet tool to round over the end of the rivet. I will take some pictures and put a link on here when I finish.

Bill Schickling

Here is a picture of the completed job.

I bought the rivet and a rivet tool from McMaster-Carr. I also made a platform to support the wheel so I could work on it. The rivets I bought were 3/16 inch and they went in pretty well. Now they are off to Stockton wheel.

[img]http://home.twcny.rr.com/schickling/1940Chevy/rebuild/dscn2311.jpg[/img]

If I were to do it over again I would probably try 1/4 inch rivets. The 3/16 rivets were smaller than the hole and made it tough to peen the back side over.

I think this was one the easiest jobs I have done in a while on the truck.

[img]http://home.twcny.rr.com/schickling/1940Chevy/rebuild/dscn2317.jpg[/img]

Bill, You got a lot of good advice with this post and made a good choice in the end. Nice looking job.
Bob

Bill,
I just clicked on your website. Wow, what great site that is. Thanks for posting!

Bob Wade, truckernix,

Thanks.