The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Locked up motor flow chart..

The 216 in my new 1/2 ton '46 is locked up tighter than a drum.. i've let it soak overnight with a gratuitus amount of WD40 down each cylinder, this morning no improvement.

With the dinky spark plug holes, its hard to really see down in the cylinders to see if they're rusted, but what i'm able to see dosen't look bad.

So I thought i'd see what you veteran "motor un-stickers" use as a general flow chart for diagnosing what is keeping the motor from turning.

My next step was going to be to pull the flywheel inspection pan and try and get a breaker bar in there to get some leverage on the engine and try rocking it back and forth.

I thought about letting it soak a few more days, then put it in gear and pull it around the yard with another vehicle to try and get it free, but if its something other than rust thats keeping it from turning, I don't want to make things worse.

Fumblin46,
How about a little history. How long did "Bertha" sit idle and where? In the middle of a field or a nice cozy barn in Nebraska.


Stuart.

Well thats the thing, I just don't know.

I got the truck from Patrick, and he got it from some other guy and since his idea was yankin' the motor out and rodding it, he probably wasn't all that interested in getting background on the motor.

He told me it turned free by hand, so my first guess was that it just developed some crud in the cylinders. The head looks fresh, and the thermostat housing is recently painted, too.

So I really don't know if it was a rebuild gone bad or just seized from sitting.

But it don't turn.. not even a hair.

I would try a better penetrating oil like Kroil or PB Blaster. WD is pretty weak when compared to these. Putting the truck in high gear and rocking it back and forth will do the same as using the prybar.

You might pull the oil pan to see if any of the bearings are seized. You could also remove the bearing caps from the connecting rods one at a time and try to turn the motor over with one rod unbolted. This will at least tell you which piston is stuck.

Phil

Pour diesel in the cylinders, let it sit for a day or longer and use a pry bar on the flywheel ring gear.

It is a little known fact but WD40 draws moisture. I've found that the best thing for freeing a stuck motor is Marvel Mystery Oil. It is available most everywhere. Put about 4-5 tablespoons down each cylinder and let it set at least 3-5 days. Then use a proper sized socket on the crankshaft end bolt to gently move the crank. If it doesn't work add more oil and let set longer. Pulling with another vehicle is a last resort! You could do great harm to the block, crank, rods or pistons not to mention the cam, pushrods and lifters. Be patient and let the Marvel Mystery Oil do it's thing. You can put it in gear and rock it back and forth by hand. That way you dont put so much torque on everything that something breaks. Good luck!

Fumblin,
1946 isn't my forte, but we will assume the transmission can be put into neutral so a frozen drive train can be eliminated. I don't think the bottom would freeze up just because of the oil rich environment. That leaves the cylinder walls which through condensation could have become "fuzzy". I would do just as you have done..dump some good oil down the plug holes, let it sit awhile and turn it over.

Does the '46 have a hole through the front for a crank handle or am I lost in the fog. If you can't access the front somehow, you could always do the "crawl" to the flywheel area, and using a long bar against the ring gear and bellhousing give it a pry.

Pulling the rig with another vehicle and dumping the clutch in gear would be plan B..or it could be plan A.

If the engine is seized or damaged from a hard freeze, it will probably NOT turn over. If it is just stuck, it will turn over with at least one of the above plans.. If you are really trying to save the engine, I would not just "unstick" it. I would do a systematic teardown starting with the head...the brute force methods will get it turning, but might ruin/score/bend stuff in the process.

Before doing anything, I would pull the starter and remove the fan belt...the accessories could be what are holding things from turning! Good Luck!


Stuart.

brake fluid in each cylinder is what I'd do... let 'er sit over nite and rock the truck in gear.

I went out again about a half hour ago (after filling the cylinders up with some more WD40 at about 6AM) and had planned just to take the battery out and put it on the charger, but thought, what the heck.. i'll hit it again and see what happens.

Pressing the starter "lever" down by hand engages the gear and turns the starter motor.. yesterday and earlier this morning, it would just go "clunk" with no movement on the main pully on the front of the engine.

More recently, each "clunk" would result in the pully moving just a hair.

So I pulled all the plugs back out (to remove compression) and tried to turn the pully by hand, but I still can't budge it.

So I sprayed more WD40 back down the cylinders, put the plugs back in, and i'll let her soak some more.

For the higher test loosening fluids, which do you suppose would do the least harm to the gaskets and seals? Kerosene, Disel, Marvel Mystery Oil, or PB Blaster?

The last stuck motor I had to contend with was the 230 Dodge motor.. I just stuck a funnel in each cylinder and filled each one up with WD40, let it sit over night, and the next morning she was loose as a goose.. guess when this one didn't behave the same way I got a little nervous about it being something other than rust that was keeping it from turning.

It's a weird situation.. the valve cover is clean, the head is oil free and painted, the thermostat housing is freshly painted.. like somebody put a new head on.. but the rest of the motor looks like it sat with no hood on it in the rain for 20 years.

I hadn't ever heard of using brake fluid before.. I got a whole bunch of that on hand, too!

Anybody else ever hear of that or use that method?

I have the belt off, so there isn't anything accessory wise keeping it from turning.

The "dream plan" was to get this engine running and drive it, while I either located, or built a replacement engine.. then swap 'em.

What I need to do is quit being impatient and assuming the worst and just let the penetrating oils do their work.

If i'm to aggresive with force to make it move, I could really jack up the cylinder walls or worse, so rocking in gear or hand power on the flywheel with a pry bar will be as much as I try and "force" it over.

If she still won't turn over easy after a week or so of that, I guess i'll be in the market for a full pressure 235.

www.kanolabs.com

Kano Kroil is the best penetrating oil I've ever used. Put about 3 or 4 ounces in each cylinder, and let it sit for 3 or 4 days. Then pull the starter, and use a pry bar against the flywheel teeth through the starter hole to rock it back and forth a little at a time. This is a lot easier than crawling under and using the pry bar against the bellhousing. Once it's turning freely, spin it with the starter until the rust on the cylinder walls is polished away. If you don't have deep rust pits in the cylinders, it should run OK and probably won't use much oil.
Jerry

Using a pry bar in the hole where the starter goes is a BRILLIANT idea!

Sometimes the most obvious plans of attack are the most overlooked.. thats where experience counts.

Another thing you might try (if you have one) is a crank through the factory crank hole in the grille. Your grille still has the original cover on the hole, so if your other truck has the hand crank, try that...

The hood was just sitting on the truck when I got it and wasn't even latched down. When I turned the engine, I did it just enough to see if it would move at all, not a complete rotation. The guy that had it before me had it sitting nose-out from a pole barn for quite some time. I don't remember if he was the one who did the head work or if it was the owner before him.

Lots of good advice has been given here.
One thing I would also look out for, not necessarily on this engine since head work seems to have been done, is cranking pistons up against valves that are stuck open.

The fellows that restore old tractors deal with stuck engines all of the time since most tractors had exhaust stacks above the tractor many of the older ones are found with seriously stuck engines.

May I suggest you read some of their "stuck engine" tricks on Yesterday's Tractors web site at http://www.ytmag.com Once there go to the "Restoration and Repair Tips" foum and search for stuck engine. There are many good tips. They also have a lightly used Classic Truck forum, left column toward the bottom.

Thanks for the suggestions as I also have purchased a pickup with stuck engine. I plan to use Kroil, then follow with a diesel fuel and transmission oil mix. I hadn't thought about using a crank. A good excuse to buy one to hang from a rack in the cab--as long as there is never an accident it should be a good conversation piece.

Fumblin,

I know it's been mentioned here, but I've always had good luck with Marvel's. Run it in my gas from time to time as well.

While you're waiting for that truck to get unstuck, why don't you send me that crank-hole cover that you're not using. The last one I saw go across E-Bay went for $57.00.

By the way Windy in Kansas, the crank handles are going about that rate too.

Good Luck to both of you.

Those crank hole covers sell for $57?

I got one on BOTH trucks.. no crank, tho!

I went out and gave HotHod Lincoln's bar thru the starter hole trick a shot, and i'll be damned if it didn't go "kerchunk" and start spinning free.

I put the starter back on, and she's just a crankin' like a banchee with the plugs out.. the valves are all opening and closing and everything seems to be A-OK.

Now i've gotta find somebody who sells these dinky a$$ spark plugs.. AC 104 is whats written on them.. way smaller than the plugs that went in my '50 1/2 ton's 216 and the plugs in the '46 2 ton.. any ideas?

Congratulations Fumblin.

Bet that felt good. One huge task down, several more to go.

I don't remember either of my 216's having small plugs. I believe, both, the 46 block, and the 39 block I replaced it with were standard size plugs. Good luck with that one.

On the crank covers... Yeah, the last one that was out there was from Bow-tie-bits. They listed 2 last week. One stainless, one plain steel, but both used.

If I remember correctly, the stainless went in the $30.00+ range, the steel went for around $20.00. But one listed the previous week went close to $60.00, at least mid $50's. Either way too rich for my pocket.

I really want one, but I'm not going to pay that kind of money.

I guess they're somewhat rare. Those old farmers probably took them off, and tossed them in the barn somewhere.

Glad to hear you got her turnin'. Now let's hear it run!

Now, gentlemen, I'd been trying to sell that '46 since early May and a lot of you guys thought that it was too much of a project to take on! I even thought about selling the crank hole cover on steal-bay for a C-note or so , but we both got a super deal in the trade!!! He's got a baby bro to his '46 2-ton and my son has a drivable project truck to drive at sixteen (not very far off!)

Frank is digging into the '46, and I've already run across a guy here in OKC parting 12 '67-'72 Chevy trucks. Let the building begin!

These are the kinds of stories that I like to read over and over again. I know it was pretty exciting when I unstuck mine and got it running.

I gotta get this thing running and driving in a years time so I can meet Jed at the Sidney show next year and hand deliver one of those crank hole covers!

I absolutely love this truck. Have my brother in law sawing up and welding the AD tailgate this weekend, and i'm swapping out the one crusty looking rim with a shiny black one i've got in my assorted 6 lug pile.. so even tho she may not run yet, it'll look cool.

Plugs had to be special ordered, and I still have to run a line from the fuel pump to the carb.. maybe tomorrow i'll get a chance to dump a little gas in the carb and see if she'll pop.

Won't that be cool!

It ought to make a little noise, since the exhaust pipe is only about 12" long!!!

I might have to extend it a bit and stick a tractor muffler on there before I make the trip, then!

Fumblin, Can I count on that trip to Sidney, and the crank hole cover?

Fumblin,

I used Champion J6C plugs in my 216. They work great, and I didn't have to adjust the gap.

The best part is that I was able to get them at my FLOAPS. (Friendly Locally-Owned Auto Parts Store)

Although, I did get some friendly flack from my guy at the store. It seems that he'd not see one of those J6 plugs in quite some time. And don't get me started on those wires...

Also: I think my grandpa may be persuaded to part with one of his spare cranks. I'll ask and see if he wants to get rid of one, if you're interested.

Brendanm,

If fumblin aint interested in that crank, I sure would be.

Brendanm,

The J6C plug is the part number for a Champion 823.. it has a 14mm, 3/8" reach, 13/16" hex head, copper core.

The plugs in my '46 216 engine are 10mm, 1/4" reach, 5/8" hex head, and are Champion 842's

NAPA has them, but had to order them.. they are supposed to be here today.

I don't think I have any need for the crank.. but I appreciate the thought!

Jed,

Come hell or high water, the sidney show it is this time next year!

I'll bring a crank hole cover with me, provided you don't end up paying a visit to the Postmaster between now and then!

That is really strange... [shrugs]

I do know that the 216 in my 46 isn't the original one (at least, I'm 99% sure), so it may be a later model or one out of a car or something.

It's good that you found the plugs that fit!

I just thought I'd ask about the crank, seeing that you mentioned that you didn't have one. No big deal.

Let us know when you get the old girl working!

Fumblin,
Glad to here you got her loose. Those old cast iron rings can stick pretty good.
Just to set the record straight,all 1941 through '48 216's and 235's used the 10mm plugs. Chevy went back to 14mm in 1949. The later head will swap onto the earlier '41-'48 216, this was sometimes done because of the limited range of plugs available in 10mm.

Bob

Whats REALLY strange is that both AutoZone and Advance Auto Parts show the Champion 842 and the Autolite 303 as the right plugs.. but they're two entirelly different plugs (the AL 303 are "full size" plugs)

I checked the numbers on the engine (pad to the lower left of the distributor) and the prefix suggests the engine is the original, or at least a 1946 model, 216 engine.

It would be interesting to find out how common those little plugs were, and what their reasoning was for using them.

Champions website lists the following vehicles for "applications" for the 842 spark plug..

CHEVROLET FLEETLINE (1948) 3.6LL6
CHEVROLET FLEETLINE (1947) 3.6LL6
CHEVROLET FLEETLINE (1946) 3.6LL6
CHEVROLET FLEETMASTER (1948) 3.6LL6
CHEVROLET FLEETMASTER (1947) 3.6LL6
CHEVROLET FLEETMASTER (1946) 3.6LL6
CHEVROLET STYLEMASTER SERIES (1948) 3.6LL6
CHEVROLET STYLEMASTER SERIES (1947) 3.6LL6
CHEVROLET STYLEMASTER SERIES (1946) 3.6LL6
CHEVROLET TRUCK (1948) 3.5LL6
CHEVROLET TRUCK (1947) 3.5LL6
CHEVROLET TRUCK (1946) 3.5LL6
CHEVROLET TRUCK (1945) 3.5LL6
CHEVROLET TRUCK (1944) 3.5LL6
CHEVROLET TRUCK (1943) 3.5LL6
CHEVROLET TRUCK (1942) 3.5LL6

My 1946 2 ton with a 235 uses "normal" sized plugs.. does this suggest a later head was installed?

Glad you got it unstuck. FWIW, brake fluid is pretty nasty stuff- I wouldn't put it in unless I was planning on rebuilding it before starting it up!

Fumblin,
The 41-49 235 and 41-53 216 heads all interchange. Chevy redesigned the 235 in 1950 so it uses a different head. So it sounds like your early 235 has a later head, or was possibly converted to a 14mm plug which I believe was possible by a competant machine shop. After '48, if you went to the Chevy dealer for a replacement head, you would get the later style. Or more than likely in your case, a trip to the boneyard to replace a cracked or damaged head would result in the swap. Like I said earlier, all 41-48 engines used the 10mm plugs.
The AC104 plugs you had were listed as original equipment on 41-48 trucks and sustained high speed use in passenger cars. They also had an M8 plug that was standard in passenger and for sustained low speed use in trucks,(aren't they all low speed)?
Hope this helps.

Bob

This is from a 1941 shop manual

" The spark plug used in this years engine is of a 10mm size instead of the 14mm size used previously.The smaller size spark plug warms up faster but operates cooler under load. The heat range of the 10mm plug is about that of a number "47" during the warming up period but on heavy service such as in trucks and at high speeds it about equals a number 42 plug in the 14mm size.

In the 1941 chevy truck data book it says it used ac plugs.

I am learning as we are going so correct me if I am wrong. Good thread.

Rob

Fumblin46,

I think it is great that you finally got a little brother for your other truck! If I remember correctly, it is what you have wanted to do for a long time. Let us know when you get it running.

I wish these old relics were as plentiful here in the northeast as they are in your neck of the woods!... But then again, we've got two to play with, so I guess we're fortunate. My next one will DEFINITELY be an Art Deco truck... You have to love them!

The most common truck in these parts is the AD Big Bolt.. there are a few Deco big bolts around here and there, but the 1/2 ton Deco trucks aren't all that common.

I'd only seen one 1/2 ton Deco truck around here, and the guy decided it was worth $3000.. it's all original, but been sitting under trees for the last 30 years.. no title.. not running..full of mice.

I had to import my '46 1/2 ton from Oklahoma (swapped the '67 even up with Patrick).. dosen't look like the Oklahoma winters are as kind to trucks as the Nebraska high plains winters are, but it's had a few dozen paintjobs over the years to help protect the metal, and all in all, it's pretty solid.

I've wanted a '46 1/2 ton ever since the day I brought the '46 2 ton home.. but the truth is i've wanted both trucks for many, many years.

Kinda neat that the '46 1/2 ton was built in September, and September was the month I got it.

What better way for a truck to celebrate its 59th birthday than with a new home?