The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk New smog check

So, I finally sold my 200,000 mile Acura/Honda commuter car. Still decent but burns a little oil. It has always passed smog with flying colors but they changed things around. Now they check for NOX by putting the wheels on rollers and putting the engine under load. I failed it.
I am thinking maybe a new catalytic converter? It is the stock one. If I don't fix I don't sell.

Nox is caused by high combustion chamber temperature. Some cars have an EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) system to overcome it, some rely only on the cat. Many Hondas use an EGR valve, so check and make sure it is not plugged or disconnected. You can see if it works by pulling a vacuum on the control input while the engine is idling. If the engine suddenly stumbles or stalls when you do, it works. If the engine smokes a bit it tends to plug up the EGR pretty quickly.

If the egr works or isn't there you will have to replace the cat. Be aware that its life may be short if you are running oil through it, but you were selling it anyway, right?

I dont understand, if you sold it why are you worried about it???I think they run that one here for yrs 78 to 96, and then another type test.just go my 96 bird inspected this morning, no problem, redryder always will pass, just safety for her, no emission at all..Fred

That smog check thing has just gone overboard. We had the cleanest air in 28 years this past summer but that's still not enough for these state bureaucrats. I mean to a point it was worth doing, (the smog check I mean), but now it's getting ridiculous. I mean, what if you’re a poor person and can only afford a POS 200,000 mile car to get you to and from your job. Typical government program. Means well, works good for a while, then goes completely out of control. Just my 2 cents.

Joker,
I think the smog is the responsibility of the seller. The car must be smogged in order to register for the next person. The buyer is smart to ask for the smog before purchase but it is no fun to have to try to make compliance at the last minute in order to sell.

No EGR valve on this car. It passed the rest just NOX was over. It is sold but the buyer wants the certificate. I haven't been able to reach my Honda mechanic yet.

Get norse to print you one up

If we had that law in Tx we might not ever sale anything,,,,,

Down with the smog nazis!

darn the torpedoes!

Let freedom ring!

Give me Librium or give me Meth.

Wait...scratch that last one.

Will it pass if you put some ethanol in the tank?

clean the EGR (if it's got one), put in a new cat and new oxygen sensor(s)... change the oil, oil filter and air filter too, that will usually get them to pass the smog test.... also, maybe put the idle at the max end of the spec..

make sure it is HOT when you take it to the smog dude.

Did all that Rusty, though it has no EGR.
I priced a cat and it is $260 installed. Not so nice when you sell the car for $1,500

pay off the inspector

A universal converter is less than $100..........but you have to weld it in.
An "Exact-Fit" type (direct bolt-in, no mods) is $50-$75 more.
A new cat won't do much for NOX, does wonders if you have high HC's.......
Also, new cat's need to be "burned-in" about 50-100 miles before they work at peak efficiency (sp?).
Good Luck

Take it to a mechanic and get it diagnosed,
Scott

I talked to my Honda mechanic and he will have to look at it Thursday. I just hope I won't lose this buyer. I am not going to spend that kinda money blind unless I know it will fix it.
He says NOX is hard to figure out because he doesn't have the same equipment they do.

Ah, even in the smog-Nazi counties here in Missouri you can get away with anything. My '77 Corvette has none of the factory emissions equipment and a very non-conforming exhaust, and it still passes the "treadmill" test without a problem. They can give a visual inspection (not supposed to pass without required equipment), but they only do it if you have repeated failures.

You might as well fix it if you are wanting to sell it and be thru with it,,,

Tony, could you cut a deal with the buyer to lower the selling price if he agrees to do the repairs at his expense? Or maybe you can't even sign off on the car before it passes. Another reason I left the Golden State. But those beaches are smoke free zones. Gotta love it!

This guy is smart. He made the passing of the smog a contingency of the sale. I had it up for sale without getting the smog first hoping someone would just buy it without asking.

fix it and pass on him and then sell it a higher price to cover the expense,,,

I got this guy without spending money on advertising. My next move was to actually get serious about selling it and spend money on advertising.
It is not easy to sell a car with 200,000 miles on it. Like it is worth $1,500 and if you spend a $1,000 in it it is still worth only $1,500
I have to minimize my losses and hope to hold on to the guy. I think waiting for my mechanic is my best bet at this point.

Ok if you don't want to try ethanol, try this:
Magic potion

Well, what about ethanol? I read about another fuel potion yesterday. I wonder if they are just ripoffs? It would be so easy.
But I am willing to try a bottle of something as added insurance.

I don't have first hand knowledge of this as we don't have to suffer emmisions checks here (yet)... but across the pond in Hongcouver they do have to go through "California style" smog checks. What I hear is that if you fill the tank with ethanol and retard the timing, you can make a car that had previously failed pass. (take a wrench with you to set the timing back when you are done). Depending on where you live, it might be tricky finding a gas station that sells ethanol. Ethanol is a gas/alcohol mix - you might be able to mix your own. I wouldn't be surprised if the magic potion I mentioned in my previous comment is just straight alcohol!

I hope that there are stovebolters out there who have first hand experience with this...

Ethanol is grain alcohol, it's mixed with gasoline to act as an oxygenator, very common in many parts of the US,Califronia too?
Alcohol is a poor motor fuel actually,it takes about twice the volume of alcohol to equal gasoline, that's why refiners limit gasohol mixtures to 10 percent max.Too much alcohol will severly lean the fuel mixture,probably raising combustion temperatures, increasing NOX emissions?
Tony M,instead of dicking around with the car, donate it to Voluteers of America for instance,you can get a write off for far more than the car is worth .A write off won't equal 1500 bucks in actual cash, but it's easier than dealing with tire kickers.

Not yet, this is a well maintained and well running car with life left. If I can get it fixed for a few hundred it will be worth it. Also, I am really trying to raise some cash. It passed HC and CO with flying colors.

Click on the following and tell me if you can tell when we started spending $3-5 million more a year on oxyfuel in lil' ol' Missoula, Montana. The decrease in carbon monoxide is due to newer and newer cars with better emission controls.

It's slow to load but the drawing of the truck is worth it.

Carbon Monoxide in Missoula

Ofcourse newer cars pollute less. But like someone else said earlier in this thread, what if a $2,000 car is all you can afford to get to work? Or drive your family around? Your market will be a high mileage well maintained car that is like 10 to 15 years old.

Instead of allowing this car to fulfill it's useful life adhering to the smog laws that were in effect when the car was new, they tighten the screws purposely to force the oldest cars on the road to become unsmoggable and thereby forcing them off the road.

If this is the car you use to go to work and make money to eat is that fair? First you spend hundreds of dollars to get your car to pass. Then it won't and you can't sell it to recoup any of your investment. Now you have to buy a newer more expensive car to get to work.

I replaced my previous PDF with a Jpeg for faster loading. I don't have time now but I will rant and rave about oxyfuel and the carbon monoxide "problem" later. This is a big-time per peeve of mine.

Can you tell when we started spending $3-5 million more a year for oxyfuel in Missoula, Montana?

easy to pass inspect in Tx with the real old stuff,,check brakes, lights, horn, wipers, tires and you are on your way,,,,usually he just waves me on in the bay,,afraid to drive it for some reason, pay my money and I am out ...Fred

I like that, how did you make them do that backwards, I guess that it makes no difference , depending on how you look at it,, hope that Tonym see's it,, he needs a good laugh,,,Fred

I am not laughing. Mechanic says all he can figure is new catalytic converter. Car runs fine and checks out on his scope. Just fails NOX. He can do it for $220
Sofar I have spent $120 on testing, now $220 on fixing and then a free retest. If it don't pass I will make it an artificial reef off Hiway 1.

Maybe you can pay the kid next door to drive it off one of those piers. :rolleyes:

Or I could turn the speedo back 150K and sell it out of state.................................... and get the FBI involved.

Sounds like an AutoX candidate to me.

Look me up before you send it Davy Jones' Locker.

why would you have to turn the mileage back in order to sell it out of state??

To recoup the extra money I spent.
I was kidding ofcourse.
These cars aren't worth much wholesale. I was getting high blue book for it but now I am spending a bundle first.

TonyM,
Try running some top end engine cleaner through the intake. Carbon built up on the intake valves actually acts like a "sponge" sucking up, and retaining fuel, causing a lean condition in the combustion chamber. This lean condition will cause higher combustion chamber temps increasing your NOX output. I have used this method to reduce NOX on several different occasions. With the high mileage you stated, I can garuantee, you have a carbon problem.

Yes those raw materials all come from parts suppliers. Clean plastics, shiny steel plates. New upholstry.

I saw a beautiful new Suburban at the local Chevy dealer last week. I stopped and asked. $52,000. I don't have that kind of cash, so I estimated at least $750 and maybe more than $1,000 each month in payments.

I have a 20 mile round trip commute. At 10 miles per gallon and 22 work days each month, I'm burning 44 gallons a month to commute. Gas would have to be more than $17/gallon before gas savings would justify buying a $50,000 car that didn't need gas.

More realistically, if I could go twice as far on each gallon, at the current $2.00/gallon I'd wouldn't save $50 a month on fuel.

If I rode a motorcyle that got 100 mpg, I'd only save $75 a month on fuel. Knowing me I'd spend a few hundred a month on accessories...

And while I'm not nearly as GREEN as many of my neighbors, it pleases me a great deal to be able to laugh at the false ecology of driving a new car that required refined petroleum and smelted steel to manufacture. And likely added far more contaniment to the atmosphere in that process than my 50 year old truck has in the past decade.

Aren't people funny!