The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Rebuild 'guarantees'

Well, my truck ran flawlessly (almost) for 140 miles since my engine was rebuilt (stock 228 GMC). Coming home from a show, rolling about 55 on the highway, all hell broke loose. Smoke, noise, etc. Looks like I busted a valve stem or broke a keeper loose, either way the head's gonna need redone, and I may end up having to redo the bottom end too. My rebuilder leans on his 'one year guarantee', and it's all my fault for not driving it (it was in the body shop for almost two years). He's offered to do the work for parts plus 50% of the labor....well, let's just jack up the labor charges so when we discount it back....

I dunno, what should I have expected? At the moment, I feel bent over pretty good...pay to pull the head and inspect the damage, pay to pull the motor if the bottom end is hurt, pay again to rebuild the head, and pay again to reassemble. All after 140 easy miles. Is his offer fair, do I just bite the bullet, or am I getting the shaft? And if so, is there anything I can do besides sue the SOB?

That guy is a big [censored]. The least he could do is free labor. I bet you spend a big wad of money at his shop. I wouldn't let it go.

Really have to know what broke to assign blame. If a keeper came loose and it dropped a valve its the machinist's fault. If it broke a valve stem off cuz you were too cheap to buy new valves, well... If you can't do the work yourself, then you're gonna have to pay somebody to fix it. Just make sure its the right somebody.

From what I've seen, if there is a problem when it was put together, the engine will fly apart in under 300 miles. Remember my 235 that flew to pieces in 120 miles? Lets just call that one a "supplier issue". But know that I feel your pain. :o

best of luck
chip

If my 292 "flies apart" I'm dropping the old 250 back in a driving it till it drops. Aside from leaking oil from every place possible the engine ran flawlessly. I never hesitated to drive it on 50-100 mile trips, having only an extra gallon of water and an extra quart of oil.

Chip's right. And if the problem is the shops' fault Tony M is right too. You can push really hard to try to get him to do it free or just take his 50% discount. Doesn't hurt to ask for more off. The worst thing that can happen is for him to tell you "no". But you never know until you ask.

His 50% off is probably less than you'll get anywhere else. So if money is a concern this guy will probably end up doing the work anyway.

-ftyler

Are the motor rebuilder and the resto shop are two different guys or did the resto shop rebuild the motor ?

If the motor guy handed you the motor and it sat in the resto shop ( of a different owner than the motor shop ) for two years, I would not blame the motor guy for sticking to his one year guarantee. If they are one in the same, the resto guy knows you did not drive the truck..

If the resto guy recommended the motor guy, you may be able to lean on somebody. If you picked the motor guy yourself, you are on your own..

Even if the resto guy and the motor guy don't know each other, the resto guy can tell him the truck hasn't been driven. No motor should fly apart at 140 miles.

Don't get me wrong Tony M, I feel for the guy. Whether the motor lasted 140 miles or 140,000 miles, the engine guy did not give him a mileage guarantee.. This case would last about 30 seconds in a courtroom...

" My rebuilder leans on his 'one year guarantee. "

Fred, I am not sure I would go back to the same motor guy even if he is sincere about reducing the labor costs by 50 %. What makes you think he can do a better job than he did the first time ?

Fred you are stuck between a rock and a hard place for sure.

A forensic investigation may or may not reveal the true cause of the failure. On the surface, a failed valve clip may be bad metal or bad installation or both. Exactly what did the rebuilder do? A complete full rebuild or something less? Did he send the head out?

I can't fault the rebuilder at this point for adhereing to his one year warranty. In fact, I think a one year guarantee on a rebuild is a phenominal warranty and I would have expected 90 days or so. So in that case the rebuilder seems to be pretty good. But again, until you can pinpoint with absolute proof the cause of the problem, you are stuck between a rock and a hard spot.

I would say that virtually all of us have had varying degrees of exasperation and disappointment in projects.

Given the fact that you have restored over fifty vehicles I'm sure this is not news to you. I would imagine that you've had many similar experiences in your other vehicle restorations at one level or another.

Fred, some of this is part of the experience. I have seen a rebuilt engine have a catastrophic failure within minutes of first being run. It was the fault of the installer not the rebuilder. I have seen freshly powder coated restored manifolds dropped and broken in half and have unfortunately been bumbled fingered myself and dropped and damaged perfectly restored parts as I was handling them putting them back in. I think it's part of the deal. Doesn't make it any easier to digest but it is part of the deal.

Lastly, a comment about human nature. I find that people will generally treat me the way that I treat them. For example; if I were riding my paint guy about every little run and flaw in the paint work and then one day after the paint warranty expired it began to blister, I would not expect him to "extend" the warranty at his expense. I tend to try to save my real fighting for the important stuff and try to accept the small stuff as part of the learning curve.

Just remember Fred: "You can't put a price on a good time"

OCK You the Man

Looks like ol Fred B has a top O the line spare tire carrier but it dont do no good if ya got [censored] for a motor & da truck wont move.
Its funny how things always even up in the end.
I feel for ya Fred :confused:
Good luck with rebuilding your rebuilt motor. :mad:

Fred, I had a 54 235 with shims, had the machine work done, my first and to this day only assembly, drove it to Ca. from Wa. 24 hours. after a 500 mile break in. I did the assembly. It was my first and It was just me and winky and the shop manual. It's alive and well today. Reluctantly I sold it in 89. So if I can build a engine that can drive to Ca. none stop after the 500 mile break with being all new magoo and full of brew,Stick it on the net or up thier bbbt if they don't make it right. Just my opinion. thank you god bless your motor.

I'm gonna come in on the other side here. The motor came with a 1-year guarantee. It's been almost two years. The motor builder's offered you 50% off labor. Seems fair.

You didn't do anything when you got the motor to negotiate a longer warranty. You didn't tell the guy it was gonna sit for 18+ months. Heck, maybe while sitting, something gummed up. Not his fault necessarily.

I'd say the motor guy made you a decent offer. Take it.

Cheers!
George

It is true I would have told the guy in advance I wasn't going to use the truck until it was finished. I would also have asked him to modify his guarantee. But, when you buy a new truck, does the warrantee start when the truck was built or the day I bought it and started driving it?

Are things in writting?
Also a big difference between a 'guarantee' and a 'warranty'. (limited to all hell)
You don't know if he's trying to screw you or not with the "offer". Just me, I'd take it apart myself.(not the mechanic....the engine.)
Too bad....good luck to you, it will all work out.

Now you're getting back into the rock and hard place again. I am getting the impression that Fred made the engine rebuild arrangements and not the restoration shop. The engine rebuilder did in fact guarantee the motor for a period of one year after it left his hands. So TonyM, in the new truck buying scenario you asked about, yes it started the moment that the engine left his rebuild shop the guarantee clock started ticking. Plus he is still standing by his guarantee and trying to help.

Don't complain about 140 miles. Have you ever had one to blow on the dynamo without being in a vehicle?? .....at 8500 rpms...you really have to pick up the pieces ,or whats left :mad: , and start over

Gee, MT, why don't you just ignore my posts? I come to this board for help, and all you're good for is sarcasm. From now on, save your breath. We don't all appreciate your BS.

By the way, that spare tire carrier wasn't even correct for my year, and yet you sold it to me anyway. Thanks for your 'help'.

I've agreed with the original motor builder....we never had any intent to let the engine sit that long, just some miscommunication with the body shop over their ability to get it done. However, that engine was prelubed and sealed in plastic, so I'm still hard-pressed to see that it's my fault. Once it's redone, I'm gonna drive the heck out of it during the guarantee period to be sure it's right! Or make my wife drive it, I did it for her! We'll both feel better when it comes out in the movie it's in! The royalties will pay for the necessary repairs.

Fred are you on drugs ? I NEVER sold you the carrier. You decided you did not want it [ after I had it boxed & ready to ship ] so I listed it on eBay. Ya better get your story straight before ya start slingin' crap. Maybe you should find another hobby to keep ya busy.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2419554636

M.T. - Some of us DO appreciate your B.S.

Keep on truckin'

My facts are straight, I'm not on drugs and I don't appreciate the character assassination from someone I've never even met. For those of you who like the BS, rock on....as long as you recognize it when you see it. For me, I came to this Board for help. I got what I needed from most of you, and I appreciate it. What I got from MT I could have gotten by shoving a hot poker up my .....No thanks.

It seems Fred has burned many bridges here on the Bolt.
Hey ! I like the hot poker idea.

Who the **** is pawpaw?

Fred B has changed his Bolt name to Paw Paw.

The only 'burned bridge' here is with MT....I've met some great people here, and the advice has been outstanding. I've bought and sold in the Swap Meet with no problems, got advice on virtually every topic (including my most recent engine fiasco), but the whole experience is not worth the personal BS of one individual who didn't understand the difference between 'pitted' and 'near mint', nor the difference between what he can make fit, and what is correct for a given application. Let him get back to his BS, I'll just avoid it. Easier to just ignore him. MT? close, but not the handle I'd choose for you.

As they say, 'caveat emptor'....and it applies with MT as with anyone else...maybe more.

Paw Paw was my wife's grandfather's nickname, the original owner of our 50 GMC longbed.

"but the whole experience is not worth the personal BS of one individual"

So tell us PawPaw, is this it ? Are you leaving us ?

As my grandson Michael Says "PawPaw don't go" popcorn The Truth is Out There (I'm just as proud to be called PawPaw as "POP'S")

I gotta tellya Fred..... The only reason I am on your [censored] is cause you think I sold you a spare tire carrier that I DID NOT SELL TO YOU!!! You passed on it & I sold it on eBay ! Someone else bought it !
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2419554636

But for some reason you have it stuck in your mind that you got it from me.
Jeez, when are ya gonna get it through your head??
What ever mistake you made on the carrier was your mistake. I did not have anything to do with it.

I have heard grumblings among the Bolters about you Fred. I am the only one who will confront you directly [ at this time ].

I had a few engine comebacks over the years and what I did was eat the labor on the re-do and only charge the actual cost of the parts to me . the customers seemed to appreciate this , I also broke in the engine my self the second time and would use the vehicle for a few days to chase parts just to be certain .

In all honesty one or two of the failures were our fault , once I hired this " engine builder " and he screwed up two engines before I fired his [censored] .

I feel for you and hope you get it sorted out .

Hey guys all this bickering going on between you guys is not necessary in the forums page.The forums are to talk with other fellow members who are willing to give and share their experiences with others in a hopeful civil manner. MT and PawPaw we are all adults here some of us would like to keep these forums fun and useful not rude and distasteful. If their is something to be settled call each other privately and resolve it there, but not here. Fred it is too bad that your engine blew out like that but these sort of things happen, Im a teen and I like to consider my self mature enogh to think that"hey this truck is older than me so shtuff happens and bite the bullet." If i were you I would just take the discount or look fer someone else.

Just my 2 pesos worth

Biggy, the bickering is all over. We all know that MT was just trying to be a good guy and help a guy that resists all efforts to help him..

As for the blown engine, once again that was a big splash over nothing. The royalties are going to pay for the repairs.. Happy Days are here again..

Did you buy the spare tire carrier from Mothertrucker in Arizona or Florida? I believe there is another parts guy. He might even advertise on this forum, I sure saw it in google before.

Tony m, there is another mother trucker in Fl,,they deal in 67-72 trucks, don't know if he is in the forum or not......Fred

Just to set the facts straight....then I'm done. I bought the carrier via Ebay from MT in AZ through a friend since I was out of town when the auction ended. It was unusable on my truck. I also bought emblems from MT after getting reassured that they would not need replating...they were better than what I had, but still pitted when I was looking for excellent to mint. Finally, the motor issue is resolved if anyone bothered to read the earlier posts. As I said, in general I've gotten great advice, bought and sold a lot of stuff without complaints. But in any bushel, there's a few bad apples. Caveat Emptor, having learned one lesson the hard way. It's this kind of sniping that made me leave the car hobby, you all can have this Board all to yourselves. It's been 99% fun. And finally, I get accused of being 'on drugs' and confused. As I said earlier, I have no reason to listen to people [censored] on my name and reputation. You [censored] on my wife's grandfather's name, I hope you rot in hell, he was a great man, better than most of us. Those of you who have bought parts from me know better. I'm an honest man who does his best to accomodate your needs, your timetable, and your financial status. I don't need to step on others to put myself on the step where I belong. Too bad that doesn't apply to all of us.

I didn't see any [censored], just a bunch of moaning.

I think this is a great place to take care of Fred !
Fred you requested the carrier. I gathered up all the carrier parts & sent you pictures & you said yes, then you said no.
I already had the parts boxed & ready to ship so I listed them on eBay.
The description was very accurate.
Then you bid on them when I listed them on eBay [ for a higher price ] ??

So lets see ...you changed your mind 3 times & now it seems you have changed your mind again & dont want the carrier !

I am not the only one you have done this to.

You are WHACKED ON SCOOBIE SNACKS dude.

Is this the "Lounge", or the "Engine and Driveline Shop"?

This discussion is gettin' mean and personal!
I aint choosen sides, jus' what the hecks all this got to do with the topic?

Ralphy. This aint the lounge, but this is where the target problem has decided to post. This is where the problem will be taken care of.
Ralphy, It aint a good idea to stick your hand in between two fighting pit bulls...... You may get your hand bit off !!. :mad:


Fred, I have bent over backwards to help you out with your restoration. I am tired of beatin' my head against the wall with ya & I am tired of ya talkin' crap when YOU are the one who dont know what he is doin'.I gotta tellya, you are one of the most miserable people I have ever had to deal with. You know I cut you off months ago & many unnamed Bolters were behind me on that decision.

We are ALL ready to take care of the Fred B problem once & for all.
I want it & I want it FAST ! No I dont want it... Yea - maybe I do want it & I want it FAST ! No I dont want it. I want it. WAH WAH now I don't like it cause I don't know what I am doin'! :rolleyes:

posted 09-27-2003 04:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"but the whole experience is not worth the personal BS of one individual"

So tell us PawPaw, is this it ? Are you leaving us ?

--------------------
Bill M
53 GMC Hydra-Matic

I have heard about dogs getting plastic surgery before but that mutt needs it.

Good one Ralphy
So is this Fred B thing A done deal or do I need to hammer on ??