The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts The MYSTERY of the Art Deco Engine (longish)

Here's a mystery for you stovebolters to chew on.

"ROSIE", my first true (stovebolt) love, is an alledged 1944 Chevy 1 1/2 ton, front mount pump fire truck, ex. Rose City, MI. She's also the reason I'm a stovebolter, versus whatever you call F#@D people.

Bought her sittin' beside the road with a "For Sale" sign in the window, and the rest is history. But speaking of history, it's slim pickings on Rosie. Serial Tag is gone, as is the original engine. She has a 216 now, with a cracked water jacket. AND, I'm finally starting to restore/rejeuvenate/rebuild her, at least, from the firewall forward.

I tend to be a stickler for originality, so it troubles me that I don't know which engine she ORIGINALLY had. The low-pressure 235 LoadMaster was an option, by my reading, for 1 1/2 tons and up. I would THINK a fire truck would be ordered with the larger engine. I would certainly LIKE to have a 235, but whatever goes back in, is being rebuilt first.

And before anyone suggests it, NO, the '54 and up, high-pressure oiling 235 is NOT an option. Not original enough.

The only clues I have are a bunch of parts the department gave me, which were APPARENTLY from the original engine, which froze and cracked, and was therefor replaced decades ago. These parts include:
-Carburator (think it's a Rochester, which wouldn't be original), with a governor.
-intake/exhaust manifold
-Radiator
-flywheel
-pressure plate (I think)
-clutch throw-out fork (I think)
-horn

SO . . . do any of these parts tell me whether they're from a 216 vs. 235? Inquiring minds want to know . . . :confused:

-Michael

If you have the original registration or title, often gave the engine number and possibly was used as the vin number. Post these numbers if you have them and we can possibly tell you what engine was orignal.

My 46 235 BIG TRUCK motor had "235" stamped on the pan as so have other High Torques I've seen.

Mikestem,

The bolt spacing on the carburetor might tell you something....I think! Isn't a 216 spacing 2 5/8" while the 235 is 2 15/16".

Stuart

VIN on 1998 Illinois title is:

1Y5069191

I remember trying to run that a couple of years ago, I think it was like a letter off of a proper Chevy vin. Without the tag on the truck, I think I have to have a meeting with my friendly, neighborhood Missouri Highway Patrol Officer to validate the title so I can get a Missouri title. 'Course, I've got a few months before THAT becomes an issue . . .

Stuart,

That's a good idea about the carb. spacing - I'll study that. I won't be near the old card for a couple of days.

-Michael

I have a low pressure 1948 235 in my 39 Chev that I thought was a 216 for the last 13 years until running the numbers using the resources on this site.

The engine it replaced was a 216 with a cracked water jacket and I pitched the block in '93 before I thought to do stuff like document numbers.

I have a Carter YF with the smaller spacing on the intake manifold and my head is a '53 for a 216. Finally my truck is titled off a replaced VIN plate that is incomplete but accurate for what is there for my truck. It is only missing the production number.

From what I understand, the 216 and 235 are nearly identical other than bore and I think even a lot of the parts are interchangeable.

While a 235 is not correct for my '39 it is quite possibly correct for your '44 firetruck.

Other than the people who have a '235' stamped on the oil pan (I do not), I don't know anyway of telling based on the information you have.

If anyone else has some secret - I would surely love to learn that info as well!

My '42 1 1/2 ton ex fire truck was originally for a Naval Base in WWII, it has a 216 (that I believe is original). I guess, beings that it was a pumper truck, would technically make it an ex fire engine versus a fire truck. Regardless, I'm pretty sure that it is a 216.
I think back during the war, they weren't all that picky in some instances regarding engine size.

John

J Lucas,

Yeah, I think maybe you're right. Thing I can't figure, is how this 1-mile square town would have gotten a truck in 1944. From what I've heard, unless it was military, OR they had defense industry in town, they couldn't GET a truck in 44.

Ah well, the mystery lives on. BTW, LOVE seeing your building go up. Esp. love seeing old stovebolts get to move inside. (That IS why you built it, right?!)

Thanks for your help,

-Michael

Hello Mikestem

Thanks, for the compliment, it has been a long project. The building is for both storage and a workshop. Right now I have my red '42, my brother in-law Terrys (AKA 27 Capitol) '27 1 ton , and a Prowler camper (Wifes)inside. Still room for one more, I hope to get my '41 1/2 ton inside in the near future.

John

I took the carb off the original 235 splash oil engine in my '46 2 ton and it bolted right up to the 216 engine in the 1/2 ton, and ran like a champ.. so I don't know about bolt spacing being different between the 235 and 216 at least not in the 1946 engines, anyway.

I was under the impression that most of the 216 and 235 parts were interchangeable.. so I don't think you could determine the engine size by what carb, intake, flywheel, pressure plate, etc came off the old engine.. and the original tag on the cowl wouldn't tell you anything about engine size, anyway.

Mikestem,

Your fire truck could have been from anywhere, but looking at the map, I see Camp Grayling was not too far away from Rose City. I was poking around on the web and found a historical society in the area that had info about the local fire department. You might check with Grayling FD to see if they ever had that truck in their inventory..they probably have someone one base that could tell them if it was stationed at the air base there.

Youngstown Fire Delivery List

Mikestem,

Check out the link above...I found that Camp Grayling received a 1943 International and Rose City MI received a 1948 Chev...Your truck might be on the list...but it is a long one!!

46 In Progress,

With research and intuition skills like yours, your "in progress" can't be too far from finished! Fabulous ideas . . . I will follow both. Fairly confident Boyer didn't build the truck, though I admit you've introduced some doubt.

Even if I don't determine the proper engine, finding the history of the truck is very valuable to me. And, it would be nice just to know what actual year truck I own!

-Michael