The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Chugging up hill ... need some wisdom ... 1940 KC 1/2 ton

So its time to see if Eleanor (1940 KC) can climb the hill to Idyllwild Ca. Her down the hill garage is at 1,500 ft, and our home on the hill is at 5,500 ft. That 4,000 ft. gain happens in about 20 miles. She has a 1959 261 cid with dual carbs, but otherwise her drivetrain seems to be original, so 83 yrs old. To all of you veterans, what do I need to be cautious of, to check, to fill and service, for her to have a decent chance of making this run in such a way that she does not end up on a flat bed tow truck? Is vapor lock an issue? I have tried out her 3 speed on some hills around here, and 2nd pulls great but slow, 3rd pulls if the revs are high enough. I am going to use turn outs to prevent the sedans and modern pickups from hating me as I "CHUG" up this hill. I welcome your wisdom, experience and guidance ! Assume that I am new to this and need all the salient points that you may know!
Ed

Ed, welcome to Stovebolt. My opinion is you have a darn good engine in that 261. It should do the job and leave you smiling. Check the tires, top off the coolant and go for it.

Ed,

Just a suggestion, but it would be great if you would start a new conversation with your "pre-drive" questions in the General Truck Talk forum for folks to be able to provide useful feedback on getting the '40 on the road.

You can also start more specific conversations on any of the main Tech related stuff (engine, driveline, etc.) if you want to get the best on-topic replies to your questions.

You have graduated from the "Welcome Centre".

Time to move into the "getting going" forums my friend.

Dan

Moved Ed's post here (in GTT) as Dan's suggested.

Bring on the "wisdom" ...

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the 261's performance.
When you hit the grades keep the rpm up from my experience at about 2500 or higher depending of course what gears your running and what speeds that will get you
Report back.

John

Your 261 was only offered new in the big trucks and they all had governors set at 4000 rpm, so don't be afraid to wind her up...get the rpm's up and keep the up and you'll do fine!

Let us know how it goes,

Mike B

Thank you for putting this post where it is supposed to be, appreciate the navigation, as this site is pretty daunting for a newbie. I understand the revs and have found that at 2500 rpm's there is tons of torque. I feel that making the climb up (all 2 lane, 40mph for normal folks) should be fine if she holds together. The next step is getting her back down after the July 4th Parade. Her drum brakes will be inspected before I leave, and I will be checking fluid levels again before I come back down. For the Parade, she came equipped with an aftermarket electric radiator fan that I hope will keep her cool at low speed. The parade is down hill, so we got that working for us. I did a check of the radiator this morning and its filled with clear fresh antifreeze, with no sign of rust. Would love to hear from others about their first drives with their bolts.

Have fun! It should be quite an experience.

I don't know anything about your dual carb setup, but all things being equal, I wouldn't worry about it at all.

All I drive and all I've ever driven my entire life are old cars. By "old", I mean pre 1972 cars and pre 1980 trucks. I used to worry like you about their capabilities but no more. Our motoring forefathers and automotive designers weren't as primitive as many people think.

I've driven my vehicles thousands of miles (actually hundreds of thousands of miles combined) all over the country in all kinds of conditions , including mountainous regions with large changes in elevation. I've never had a problem with a vehicle's factory drum brakes, carburetion, or anything else you might worry about.

Your 1959 261 is "modern" enough engine that there shouldn't be any problems at all climbing the mountains.

In a downhill parade , you need great brakes.

My uncle drove his 1911 Stanley Steamer up Pikes Peak and back down with only brakes on the rear axle and using the steam engine in reverse to help keep the speed down, your 261 should have no issues climbing the hill.

Thanks for the encouragement! Your work on your '37 is inspiring, to have it that functional, with a 6, but capable and useful as a driver. I read that the suspension is pretty basic, did you add shocks to the front or rear, to help the leaf springs, or do you just really have a keen eye for pot holes?

Great brakes that are good for one application are required. Control speed with proper gearing. Riding brakes going downhill is a recipe for disaster, that is what all those runaway truck ramps are for. If one does not know what gear to use, start with lower gear ‘til certain have speed under control, then OK to shift up a gear ‘til speed is under control again, etc.

Ed

The thought that circulates in the antique truck world is that you use the same gear going down a hill as you used to go up it.

For old trucks like mine, I sometimes have to get into first gear for some hills so it's a slow 10mph grind. I'll go a little faster downhill, but I need to keep it slow to preserve the brakes and keep them working.

For parades, the granny first gear in Lurch's transmission is perfect. I let him idle in first gear and we're keeping pace with the folks that are walking in the parade. ;-)

Dean

When I first put a 261 in my 1953 half ton, the first thing that impressed me was how good it was at climbing big hills. Probably not a big factor, but you will lose 3% power per 1000 feet of elevation.

Leo - does that mean my 1950 suburban won’t make it to 33,000 feet elevation with a 261? I may have to adjust my travel plans now.

Assuming 3% horsepower loss per 1000 feet of elevation change is linear and that your 261 has 170 HP at sea level, it'd still have 62.21802 horsepower if you can find a road that goes to 33,000 feet Tom. But you'd probably have to change carb jets a few times on the way up.

Anyone planning a Stovebolt Road Trip to the summit of Mt. Everest?

We will personally supply a video crew for that one!

We had our '51 Deluxe Chevy car with 216 when we lived in Laramie, Wyoming which is at 7200 ft. We took it once to the top of the Snowy Range pass which is just under 11,000 ft. It was gutless but we made it up and back.

There is more about the car in my signature link.

Thanks Leo, no I really do appreciate the point that I will loose 3%/1K ft. Thanks to Rustoholic for the wise words as well. You are all on the money, I feel it will go up just fine if I watch the temp, but getting down, I have to nurse those brakes. Both ways I will have my wife in the Wrangler, with a tow strap and a AAA card for emergency towing! I have another question and that is how full to fill the radiator with coolant? Its the stock '40 unit, with an electric fan on the front behind the grill. It has an aftermarket overflow canister, but I notice that the coolant (when cold) is is about 3" from the cap, so lots of room. Any help here is appreciated as well
Ed Warner

You don't have to worry that much about the brakes if they're in good shape. Just don't ride them, Use lower gears, etc.

I've discovered that all of my vehicles without coolant reservoirs should be filled to about 2 inches below the bottom of the filler neck. If you over fill it, it'll find it's correct level naturally.

There's a coolant reservoir on my truck that works perfectly but you can install a temporary container to catch overflow if seeing coolant puking from the overflow tube stresses you out..

I'd be surprised if a stock '40 radiator fill spout would support the use of a radiator cap with two seals. That type cap is needed to allow the radiator to draw coolant back from an overflow when the engine cools down.

I don't know what the differences are between a 1940 radiator filler neck and a 1941 radiator (that's what's on my truck) but the 4pound radiator cap on my truck has two seals like a modern car and functions the same way.

Whether it functions as a return reservoir or not, it can still act as a recovery tank so that excess fluid doesn't dump on the ground. The radiator could be over-filled without wasting the coolant that dumps out.

Surprise! Surprise! I'm wrong again.

Chevy Master Parts Book lists the same radiator cap from 37 to 47, so if Otto's 41 has a 2 gasket cap Ed's should as well. And it should support a coolant recovery tank.

Chug Chug Chug, Eleanor is ON THE HILL! Well you all were right on the money! She indeed chugged up the hill, with her three speeds and her slightly modified dual carb 261!. I was able to run the lower section in 3rd, as I could keep the rev's above 2500, but the upper more steep section was all in 2nd. What I learned is that this 83 yr old truck is happier on a mountain road then in the city. She was more suited to this kind of terrain. I learned a good bit about the road it self. In the automatics we own, we did not realize that the upper section of the road was steeper then the lower part. With this old 3 speed, you know exactly when its climbing and when it not working as hard. I spent the 2 hours with one eye on the road and one eye on the temp gauge. It never got over the half way point, and once it was there I turned on the electric fan in front of the radiator, but it was really just keeping up the speed as best as you can to keep the temp under control. She will be in the July 4th parade, and a week after, we will see how she does going down. As I was changing the gear oil in her pumpkin prior to the trip, I noticed one of her rear brake cables was frayed and down to a few strands. With that repaired, I am one step ahead on the trip down. StoveBolt Independance Day!!!

That's a gorgeous truck. I wouldn't care if I had to push it up the hill. I'd still drive it.

Blue,

A BIG CONGRATS!!! on getting your fantastic looking truck to climb that hill.

Come the Independence Day Parade run, hope you can get a chance to have someone take pics and you might be able to post them for all to see???

A great place to post said pics (or any others you may like to share on future drives) would be in our Stovebolt Driving Report if you can please and thanks.

Thanks for sharing your follow-up story and truck picture!

Dan

Blue,
That is a great color and has me rethinking painting my ‘57 3200 brown.

well, yes, but it attracts maybe a bit too much attention, now that I have it. I wanted a stock plain "driver" but my wife loved this one, and yes its a driver, but you cannot leave it out anywhere. I am going to enjoy it as is, and maybe look for a a bit more of a work truck to go with it. I guess that is how all these bolters assemble their collections of multiple vehicles!

thank you sir, Eleanor appreciated the compliment!

Maybe you need a big Rottweiler to ride shotgun- - - - -that seems to keep the "lookers" from being "touchers" pretty effectively. I use to frequent a pretty seedy beer joint on the outskirts of Nashville Tennessee. They had a sign on the wall- - - -"After business hours, this establishment is guarded by a pit bull with AIDS. If that doesn't impress you. we can introduce you to the outlaw biker who infected the pit bull!"

LOL
Jerry

Again, thank you to the help, suggestions and good advise. Here are a few shots of the line up for the Idyllwild Ca. July 4th parade. Eleanor was able to follow a friends 1955 Belair wagon, so the blue crew was shining that day. The hoots, cheers, thumbs up, and "Boy she has great hips" and other comments from the parade watchers were welcome. The best one was a woman who just saw the Palm Springs Corvette club go by ahead of us with 20-30 late model cars, who stood up and yelled to us "Anyone can buy a Corvette, but where do you find of of those?" Getting her home to the flat land was smooth. I want to thank those of you who advised on engine revs, and now I get it, going down the hill she did fine! She has a stock 3 speed, on the floor, and I found that even in 3rd, the big 1959 261 'bolt kept her under control, and I did not need to hit the brakes but a few times. I also found again that mountain roads suit her more then city streets and stop lights. Thank you kind bolters, this newbie needed the advise and put it to good use!

I agree. I was at a car show last year that was full of Corvettes. I made a comment to a guy who had a ‘59 3100 thanking him for adding some class to the show.
Thanks for sharing the pics.

thanks Kevin, love your pics, love the pumpkin color. Further, when I see those come-a-longs tweaking and changing the existing "bolt" geometry to put one of these beauties back together again, warms my heart! I have done similar things with structures to make them behave! What is the pic of the old Suburban(?)with the Alaska road commision logo? Further, some of your fab work shows that where you are on the planet, deems that you make stuff work, fab it, modify it, weld it, make new, make it work, because that is how these trucks got to this point in life, with ingenuity!
cheers, would love to sit down and have a beer with the guy who did this work!

the mental image of all of this is priceless!