The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline Remove steering stop

My exfarm 3600 turns sharply to the right. To the left, you better swing out and start turning like you’re pulling a 40’ trailer. Sorta like the old song goes, “give me 40 acres and I’ll turn this rig around”.

Over the years I’ve gotten used to the big left turn radius but occasionally traffic creates problems a sharper left turn would help.

I know I can adjust the tie rods/center link, taking some from the right and adding to the left. But I’d rather not.

So, would just removing the left side steering stop make a meaningful difference?

RonR

Are you sure that the steering stop is what's creating the problem? Seems like if you could adjust it out that the stop is not the problem but rather running out of travel in the steering gear which means removing the stop will not provide any change.

Good question, but I don’t think it’s a matter of the steering box. You can turn as far left as possible and the left side stop is firmly engaged.

RonR

Just thinking out loud here. It would seem that your pitman arm may not positioned correctly or your steering box may not be centered. At some point in your trucks past the pitman arm may have been removed and was not returned to the factory position. It would seem that if you centered the steering box lock to lock, you shoould be able to tell if the pitman arm is out of phase. The adjustment on the tie rod ends and center link should be really close on each side unless something is bent.

Just spitballing here but, could you disconnect the pitman arm and count rotation of the steering wheel. Then set it at half way and adjust linkages to fit. Might work but warning I haven’t had my coffee yet. Good luck.

Some more modern pitman arms have skip splines that negate the possibility of relocating arm a few splines on shaft, however some time with a three cornered file will take care of that problem. Particularly useful in switching from fore and aft drag link movement to side to side tie rod movement or b@ck.

Ed

Moparguy: Just to verify, you are aware that the stops can be adjusted, right? When I got the 58 I had a similar problem and there was enough gunk caked onto the stop that it was not apparent that it coupd be adjusted. Once I cleaned and adjusted the stop correctly, the issue went away.

You cannot adjust it out with the tie-rods, their job is for toe-in or toe-out adjustment only. Pull the pitman arm off and check for center of the gear box, this is also a really good time to adjust the box. Spindles should hit stops before gear box hits its internal stop. Check left and right full turning, gear box still unhooked, by measuring tire to frame on both sides, same spots. Adjust till each side is even.

Rotate one tie-rod changes the toe adjustment,
Rotate the rod, changes toe adjustment
Rotate one tie-rod in, the other out, only moves the rod between the tie-rods
It takes four tie-rods, two sets, to be able to adjust the center steer position, one side shorter, one longer.

You could also have spring bushings worn out, this changes the drag-link position which can cause a uneven steering. Same with leaf spring center locating pins.
If the pin is shifted, or broke, the axle is no longer centered, steering will be effected. Check wheelbase side to side.

I should have mentioned (actually it slipped my mind), last year alone with replacing the kingpins and bushings I rebuilt the tie rod ends and drag link. Also I recall centering the steering box in the reassembly process.

At the same time I pulled the springs,disassembled, cleaned them on a wire wheel, painted and replaced the bushing and reassembled with a helper leaf and spring liners. Yes it rides better.

The left turn radius was unchanged.

RonR

Is your drag link original? I had a similar issue with a 3100 that installed CPP power steering kit in. The only way to fix it was to adjust the length of the drag link to equalize the left and right turning radius.
I know that my example is comparing apples to oranges, but the length of the drag link, or an out of position pitman arm are the only two items i can think of that can cause your issue. Unless the truck has been in a collision at some time in it's past and the frame or something else is bent.

Does the front end have the correct parts installed? Maybe the drag link is too long. Maybe its for a big truck or sometyhing?

I just saw Carl's reply on the previous page and see that I was thinking along the same line. I'm leaning toward the drag link as the problem.

More info and conjecture. In the shop for a few minutes this morning and it’s approximately 1 5/8th turns right to lock and 1 1/4 left to lock.

So if I pursue this chore I’ll center the wheels and pull the drag link, center the steering box and reinstall.

Now for the conjecture, I believe all steering components are stock original. The truck was purchased new by a farmer in Indiana and wound up in a small museum. I purchased it from the museum with all the documentation supporting the odometers 43,000 miles. Over the past 10 years I haven’t seen a reason to doubt the miles or originally.

I remember reading (somewhere sometime) that farm type trucks (mine is a 3600 flatbed) came with a bias for right turns. This was to allow for maneuvering in tight quarters, in one direction anyway.

Did I dream the above?

Added in edit: I typed this post before the coffee kicked in. It doesn’t matter how the drag link is clocked if the left side steering stop is being contacted.


RonR

I've never heard that. What makes a right turn different from a left turn on a farm? What tight quarters? Farms usually have all kinds of room for maneuvering.

Lock to lock your wheel turns 2 7/8 revolutions. It seems like it should be just under 1 1/2 turns from center to each lock. I think your steering gear is not centered.

When your steering wheel is turned all the way to the left, is it the steering gear that stops or are you at the steering stop on the spindle?

I'd also take some frame measurements if only to rule it out as the source of the trouble.

Not really the same problem as yours but similar, my '37 always went down the road with the steering wheel off center 1/8 turn, so mine would turn more one way then the other. Everything was rebuilt or new. I never could solve this, figured the newer axle someone installed was causing it. I had new spring and bushings, steering components, gear box fully rebuilt , and steering wheel right ( '37s use a keyway on the steering wheel). To solve it, I had an adjustable draglink made using two tie-rod ends. It was easy to center the wheel and the truck drove much easier since the gear now helped hold the center. When I changed the caster angle from 2 to 4 degrees, the wheel went off center again, so a simple adjustment brought it back into alignment.

It really doesn't take much change in the axle position to change the steering. Double check that the caster shims are facing the right way, thick ends towards the rear of the truck. It could be as simple as loosening the u-bolts and pulling the axle forward is enough to correct it, or pushing it back, depending on which way it needs to go. The alignment pins are not super precise.

One time long ago when negotiating a tight left turn I cranked hard on the wheel and heard a pop. after that I was able to turn left a bit sharper. That was convenient so I just left it that way. The next time I put king pins in it, the kit had new steering stops so I left the left on off. It's like that to this day. It turns left until the tire rubs on the spring.

Years later, after one of the springs in the drag-link adjustment broke, I couldn't buy a replacement kit for a 1-ton, only half tons. They're listed by the same part number for 1/2, 3/4 and 1-tons on all the aftermarket vendors but they don't fit the 1-tons. Anyhow I used the half-ton spring. After that the steering wheel drives 1/8 turn off center and I can tell from driving it that the steering box is not centered on the high spot (too much play, while it's OK when the wheel is centered).

It just occurred to me that I could loosen the U-bolts on the left side and maybe correct the problem with a BFH. I think I'll order some new U-bolts first, though.

Moparguy, It's possible that one of your steering stops is installed backwards. That could account for your symptom. They are not symmetrical but I think there is, or should be, a projection stamped in the stop that fits into a groove on the axle eye. That may not be obvious if you're not looking for it.

I really want to know what this problem is.

Ron, please let us know if the left hand stop is installed backward. That makes a lot of sense if it is.

And/or remove the stop and see how it steers.

Removed the stop and there’s a Small improvement. Not enough to get excited about though. I’ve got plenty of other projects on the burner so this one is going to the back of the stove for the time being.

That's weird. With the stop removed does the steering wheel come to a stop? What makes it stop? steering box?

The steering box has internal stops, that's why it needs to centered correctly.

I wonder if it could be that the one (or both) of the steering arm(s) is bent throwing the geometry out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ackermann_steering_geometry

Gord, great suggestion but nothing appears to be bent.

After all the suggestions I’m going with TUT 59 and others that suggest the drag link needs to be pulled, steering sector centered and drag link reinstalled.

That’ll happen in the near future and I’ll report on the results.

RonR

One question I have is when the steering wheel is turned to the left until it stops, is it actually at the steering stop on the hub/spindle? Does it stop turning before it gets to the steering stop?

Otto, the stop was being hit, now with its removal the hub is contacted.

RonR

One important thing to consider about the steering stops is that they prevent the steering gear from turning too far so that the ends of the ball runs (which the balls roll in) aren't damaged. If those get damaged beyond repair you may need a new steering box.

In the instructions for adjusting a steering box, there is a warning about not turning the steering wheel to a hard stop with the pitman arm detached from drag link. Permanent damage to ball runs will result.

Carl, thanks for the information. I have been known to hit the stops in a Not gentle manner.

RonR

Hmm... Maybe I'd better put the left stop back on, though the tire hits the spring as a stop and so far nothing bad has happened. But I suppose that if the next owner put skinny factory wheels and tires on the tire might not hit the spring in time. I might be dead and gone by then and couldn't warn him.