The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts New to the group - 20" wheels redux

Hello to everyone. This is my first post here after finding the site yesterday. I am in WV and was recently given a 1967 Chevy C40 dump. A bit of info about the truck:
292, 4spd. Decent shape, runs real well with only a bit of smoke while the motor is cold (valve seals?) The dump is a bit of an issue as it has a long body on it so it doesnt dump quite steep enough for any sort of wet/sticky dirt/gravel. I am wondering if it was an old lumber delivery truck at one time. Have been thinking of shortening the bed and tail of the frame but I havent taken the time to figure out the geometry and what it will do to the payload and such.
My real issue is that the truck has the old split rims (split in the well) and the tires on it are pretty dry rotted. It has 10 lug 9.00-20's on the rear and 5 (perhaps 10's with the plate) 7.50-20's on the front. At this point I am not interested in a restoration but I would love to get the truck a little more reliable and road worthy for rare short (10-20 miles) hauls. I am a home builder and also own a sawmill. I am always needing to shuttle around a couple tons of gravel or a couple thousand feet of lumber. That said, I am not sure I am willing to invest 2k into this truck. I thought a quick motor rebuild (rings, have the head done, gasket set) for 500-700 or so dollars and a set of tires would be worth it. To my question, is it possible to weld these old split rims up solid and still get a tire on them? Or is that out of the question?
I would appreciate any of your input on the whole package. I would love to look forward to a restoration of some sort one day but its just not in the cards for me, time wise, right now. I love the nostalgia of the old truck but sinking 2-3k into it when I could pick up a newer road ready truck for 4-5 k is what I am thinking about.

Glad to have found you all and look forward to scouring the site and all of your input.

Thanks,
Mark

Welcome to the 'Bolt Mark,
What you'll have to do is find some 20" split ring type wheels and replace those widow-makers. Around here, they have been outlawed and won't pass inspection. You can also upgrade to the 22.5", which is what a co-worker of mine did to pass inspection. Also, there's no way to get a tire over the rim if you were to weld the widow makers solid. Good luck with your project,
Scott

Martin, first of all get rid of those widow-makers. I live in Texas and in my area the labor rate at the machinshop is $60.00 per hour. a 5-7 hundred dollar O/H is way low. If you remove and install the engine (your self) and have the engine done you are gonna spend $1400.00 for a good job then you will probably need a clutch, oil, water pump,and radiator rod job, and antifreeze, maybe belts and hoses, and an engine support. So you may want to scope out your costs a little closer before you start.
But great to have you here, these guys and gals have been very helpfull to me and I do this for a living. Good luck keep us posted.

Hello Markinwv and welcome.As for your '67 C-40 292,I would put a set of green Toke seals on the valve stems and run it that way.Those engines are tough as nails!This can be done without even pulling the head by pumping air into the cylinders to keep the valves closed.If at a later date you have the funds,you can pull the engine and do a complete overhaul.

I have heard two sides of this story, and I would like to understand this issue. I have read that there are two kind of splitrim wheels, and supposely one kind is dangerous and the other is safer, is this true? Is there some link to accurate information on this subject? When were these rims used I thinking year to year here guys. If I have read the information right they were used for years? Are they truly dangerous if properly maintained, and procedure is followed during mounting? Sorry the older I get the more I question everything. :rolleyes:

Obsa...

The "out-lawed widow-maker split-rims" ( did I leave-out any other names?) in question are the two-piece rims that separate in the center (dropped) section of the rim.

There are no locking-rings around the side flange.

The true two-piece 20-inch "split-rim" came out in the later '40s-early '50s, and stayed around through the '60s. If assembled incorrectly or worn/rusted badly, they can come apart with catastrophic results. These are the true "widow-makers". Most DOTs have banned them from use on public roads.

The term "split-rim" gets used liberally, usually applied to any multi-piece rim, 15" thru 20" ,six-lug through 10-hole.

The other ("safer") 20 inch rim found on older trucks is the three-piece, with a locking ring, then the side-ring flange, and finally the rim section itself. These are still legal, although each rim should be carefully inspected for wear/rust... if assembled incorrectly, these too can come apart when being aired-up...

Then there are the one-piece tube-less rims that came along later.

A reprint ( or original) shop or owners manual for your truck will have instructions on mounting tires on these rims...

Welcome, MARKINWV! Way back some time ago, John told me I was to be the moderator of the Big Bolts bunch, and one thing I'm supposed to do is join the rest of the fellers in welcoming you, and I just did that! Now John will start payin' me what I'm worth again.

As you can see, this here bunch is real happy to give you information, good information, about whatever you might be considerin' doin' on yer truck.

The BIG BOLTS corner of John's garage is where he lets us set off to the side and palaver about all the stuff that the other 'Bolters either don't have to worry about or don't care about, so that makes us feel kinda special.

'Course, we know we're special 'cause we own, drive and fix the old trucks what are way to big for most everyone else, sorta like the COE bunch over there in the other corner, and the 'Burb fellers settin' down there near the roll-up door. Ever' once in a while some of them fellers bring their chairs and boxes that they might be settin' on and come join us, and they are welcome to, just like you, but most days, its just us Big Bolts fellers.

But, now, when one of us goes to workin' on his truck, well, you can just expect everyone to gather 'round to watch and make suggestions, and you'll no doubt hear someone say, right off, "Well, now I read in the Tech Tips that what yer thinkin' about is addresses by Barry, and John in a post 'way back in '02. So you might go read about what they said."

Just know that there ain't nuthin' in mechanical, electrical, engine, transmission, rear end, seat reconstruction, doors, windows or any other part of these old truck that somebody hasn't already tackled, made a bunch of mistakes and figgered out a way to get it done with fewer skinned knuckles.

Oh, we point and wag our fingers a lot at each other about what might be the best way, but in the end we all have the same goal in mind and help each other as best we know how.

Long ago, we decided (actually John and Peg decided) that we had best keep the subject on trucks, 'cause politics and religion within this rasty bunch just caused a heap of yellin' and screamin' and nobody was gettin' any work done on the trucks.

Wlecome again, enjoy what you find here and join in the discussions.

Oh, and some of these fellers are hard of hearin' and have trouble readin', so pictures are welcome. Just put yer pictures in one of them websites 'specially made for that and give us the link. A picture works specially well for things that may be odd or changed, or you just want to show us your fine work.

so ya wanna make it more practical! good! there ought to be a junkyard where you can get the 22.5 wheels someplace in the wild and wonderful. some guys here go for the absolutely stock look and get somewhat tense when folks talk about updating. not me.

on the practical side, consider this. if you get a flat on one of the rears tires, the valve stem has a nasty habit of getting sucked into the tire and ripping the inside of the tire to shreds. in rare cases, the tire can catch fire from all that rubber flying around inside the tire. rare, but it has happenned. i have seen plastic clip installed on the stem, but put little faith in them. 20 miles on a flat is more than enough to ruin the tire and at least heat it up.

the 22.5 tire is much lighter, and less of a bear to handle.

any tuck tire shop will change a 22.5 without any hassle at all.

a junkyard that has the wheels, probably has the tire on them. if they are decent, the tire ought to last for years.

considering the cost of a new truck, and the condition of the truck you have, you could save many thousands of dollars if you invest alittle in the old truck, and you will have something not too many people have any more. maybe a good rolling billboard for your business.

best of luck. oh yeah. don't be a stranger here. this is a pretty good place to hang out, and yeah, guys like me who have trouble reading sure do like pictures.

Thanks to everyone for all their input. I pretty much knew this was a shot in the dark. Talking with a buddy who owns the local garage we both agreed it would be a 100% red tag with the DOT but neither of us knew if you could physically get a tire on if the rim were welded solid (if it were to stay on the farm). I would rather go the new or new/used rim route anyway just for the peace of mind. I'll start making some calls on Monday.

Toyvo, With regards to the motor rebuild/price. I wasnt planning on any machining other than having the head reworked ($120). I would be doing the rebuild and it would just be a quickie. Mainly the head rework, Gaskets, set of rings, hone, and thats it. I realize the "while Im in there" part, but again this is basically just a touch above a farm truck at this point. The biggest expense would be the $120 to rework the head and the gasket set. After that it would just be my time. I have access to free fluids so that helps. I was mainly thinking of getting the smoking knocked down a bit and the post from Gtow69 sounds like a better 1st attempt.

I would love to shoot for more of a restoration at some point as my wife loves the truck but for now it would have to just be a bit here and there. As I expected, you all were very helpfull in keeping the focus where it actually should be.

Thanks again for all your input and we will keep you posted.

Mark

From a post on the subject "Widow Maker Rims" in the forum I'm made some changes to address some of the issues raised here. You may have read some or all of that thread.

I went through this same discussion on "widow maker" rims when I was trying to find out if I could use the original ones on my 49 1-ton. So below is a link to an article that you might find interesting and it seems to provide some details on what is, and what isn't, a "widowmaker" rim. Read the article on "Setting the Record Straight". Basically, none of the rims have been "outlawed" or "banned" per the article and the OSHA information I've been able to find. The 3-piece rims that are on my 49 don't seem to fall into the "widow maker" category, yours rims might, but it all gets down to the condition of the rim, regardless of how many pieces there are. And considering it's almost 40 years old, you might not want to take a chance anyway.

http://www.retread.org/PDF/SettingTheRecordStraight.pdf

Here's some more information that you might find useful. This is the actual OSHA guidance on rim matching.

http://www.tireindustry.org/pdf/osha_Rim%20Matching.pdf

This one has the mount/dismount procedures as well as some inspection procedure information.

http://www.tireindustry.org/pdf/osha_Demount-Mount.pdf

Hope this helps and have a great holiday weekend.

So is it impossible to find 7.50 20's?

I found that 19.5s fit also, one more option. But you need to measure your brake drum and center hole.

I found that 19.5s fit also, one more option. But you need to measure your brake drum and center hole.

Miller Tire in Ohio sells 7.50-20 made by Denman. $155. I also found some Chinese (where else?), but don't have any idea about how to go getting them. Probably need to order a bunch, I'll chase it down if anyone else is interested.

I think I found 7.50 or 8.00 x 20 Highway treads from Allen Tire ( Mid-Atlantic region) about three years ago, when I was looking for tires for my 55.1 4400.

You can definitely get "antique tires" from Coker or Universal, in B.F. Goodrich, Firestone, U.S. Royal, as well as Denman, but they'er not cheap, and probably not feasible for the "working truck".

The 20" rubber is getting a little hard to find because the truck makers have been getting away from 20" rims over the last 10-15 years, or going tubless & radial... most tire stores don't want to bother stocking such a slow-moving item... the two big local dealers in truck tires didn't even want to talk to me about 20" tires... couldn't wait to get me off the phone...

But there are still many, many trucks running around the US on 20" bias-ply tires and multi-piece rims... will have to rummage through my notes and see what I found...

Here's one possible source:

http://www.nebraskatire.com/truck/overstocks.htm

And here's the "truck tire pages" from Universal:

http://www.universaltire.com/cart.php?target=category&category_id=343

Another:

http://www.tirexusa.com/simex/trbias.html

HI I HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM AND MEASURED A TRUCK TO DAY A 1981 CHEVY G 30 BOX TRUCK WITH A 14,500 GVW IT HAS 5 LUG AKA 10 LUG WHEELS IN THE FRONT AND THEY MEASURE THE SAME AS MY 1954 CHEVY 6100 10 LUG TRUCK THE CENTER HOLE IS BIGGER ON THE 1981 G 30 BUT IT WILL GIVE YOU A 19.5 RIM SO IF YOU USE A 8R 19.5 THE TIRE WILL BE SKINNY