The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Inner grille bar color codes

Does anyone have the paint codes for 1951 Inner grille bars ? I'm looking for waldorf white codes.
The codes I have are no good and don't cross over for anything.
246-71052
93-71052
I have been to a couple of paint stores with no luck.Does anybody have a paint code for waldorf white ?

Thanks,Tim

Unless you are doing a VCA level restoration the best description is "cream" which can easily be mixed by adding a little yellow to white which is what I did with BPS enamels.
MY GRILLE

No,I'm not doing a VCA level restoration,but was wanting to keep as close to the waldorf color.I was told that they added grey to make the off white back in the day.I went yesterday and picked out a color from a chart.
I totally disassembled the grille and frame work.I media blasted all of the pieces and vari primed them.I sealed and painted the grille frame work pieces this morning.My color is definitely white,I,m happy with it.My grille bars will be chrome,I have to save up some cash for them.

Your grille looks really nice,Ive been watching your progress.

Thanks,Tim

Now you got me curious so I looked it up and according to THIS WEBSITE Waldorf White for grille bars is PPG 246-7105 and DuPont 93-7105

This is the first time I've found this information and don't know why an automotive paint store couldn't mix those codes. I'll be down there this week and will take the codes with me to see if they can mix it.

Color is always a hot topic here and I'm glad you brought this up.

Woody,both those paint codes are no good,they will not cross reference into a new number.The numbers are the same numbers as I posted above.Both numbers are actually Dupont numbers,The 93-71052 is what they call a air drying number,I forget what the other was called.

keep us posted if you get lucky and find Waldorf white.

Thanks,Tim

Woody & Tim,

I have cleaned up those mistakes on the Stovebolt A-D Colors Tech Tip and on my 1954 trucks website. That link that Woody has is for files on an old server that I cannot easily get access to - I'll try to correct that page or get it deleted.

I could not find a PPG (Ditzler) code for Waldorf White. Maybe Bombay Ivory is similar but who knows?

Did you try calling PPG's Color Library and asking them if they have an offset code for Waldorf White?

Tim,I never thought of calling ppg direct.I already picked a color and painted the inner frame parts.I'm surprised that someone doing an original restoration,hasn't come up with the paint codes.Ive searched every thread here,and no answers to waldorf white.Mike at Jim Carters showed me a page out of a sales mans handbook.The paint codes was the dupont numbers I posted above.I think I should keep looking"for the purist",it's important.

Thanks,Tim

Tim,

Here is the note at the bottom of the Tech-Tip:

PPG has an excellent Color Library that most PPG jobbers do not know about (PPG Automotive Refinish, Customer Support Center, CSC). The color library can tell you if the original color is still available or, if it is not, they will usually have an "offset" number for a matching color. DUPONT does not provide this service .

The PPG Color Library can usually provide matches if you have Year, Model, Name of Color (sometimes they can tell you the colors that were available); but, it helps to have the PPG/Ditzler color code/number (in the table above). They do not have a way of showing you the colors.

440-572-6100 PPG Color Library - had all the paint codes that I needed for a 1954 restoration (new number Apr '07: 1-800-647-6050).

440-572-6111 PPG Tech Services Refinish (gave me the phone number for the Color Library).

440-572-6871 FAX number for the PPG Color Library (they will fax you modern color off-sets and formulas). Maybe they are now able to send this information via email?

If you call, let us know what you get.

Any idea the inner grill bar color for a 1949 truck in Cape Maroon? I am changing the original color from swift red to cape maroon, and giving the front fenders and running boards a shot of gloss black. I had considered painting the inner bars black, the outers maroon, or else the whole grill maroon with the gold stripe line.

Any idea on how it would have been done, originally? Of course, sans two-toning the fenders.

Information on 1949 grills is on this page.

Awesome. Thanks for that info. Never even crossed my mind to look there. Thanks.

Ok, so here we are, a year later and I'm still waiting to here what ever came about
for the "Waldorf White" PPG offsets. Did anyone ever follow thru on the quest, or
am I gonna have to do it??????
I'm readdddy for the paint on the grill bars. Be putting the PPG DP-90 on to morrow
and should be ready for the colors on Wednesday. I have the "Mariner Blue" but need
to pick up a pint of the white.
One says mix with yellow, another says mix with gray but we really need to hear it
from the horses mouth.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

All right, here we go!
I just got off the phone with Heather at the PPG Color library asking about the numbers
that are listed on the charts that we see posted here. She was very friendly and willing
to help. The numbers that I’m referring are the PPG 246-7105 or 71052, those are not
PPG numbers, tried to cross reference the DuPont 93-7105 or 71052 and those are no
good either.
I asked her to check the Chevrolet Color charts for Waldorf White and there is no color
chip for a color with that name in the 50’s. Her suggestion was to check the Auto Color
Library at TCP Global, which I had already done to no avail.
The bottom line appears to be that no record exists for the color “Waldorf White” so you
can pretty much use what ever shade of white suits your fancy or seems to coordinate
with the main grill finish be it body color or chrome.
And I defy any judge or jury anywhere to dispute it by proving differently.

By the way, that grill that Woody V had done for his truck is about the nicest looking
combination that I’ve ever seen.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Oh the agony of it all!!!!!!! So I’m really, really ready to shoot the back bars for the ‘50 grill, that is the elusive Waldorf White. Since it was the standard color for the back bars, this shade of white had to be compatible with the entire palette of colors offered for the AD, which meant that it had to be a fairly neutral tint. Plain old refrigerator white would fill the bill, but it contrasts to much with all the colors and just looks to stark.
The purpose of the back is to hide the radiator yet still let all the air it needs thru and to accent the body color on the grill bars. They could have used black or they could have simply continued the body color but that would have looked like one large painted panel in the front and would not have defined the lines of the grill bars.
As I mentioned earlier, the photo of Woody’s green grill with the off white back bars look’s great. He used a Valspar gloss white tractor paint and tinted it with just a touch of yellow creating a bright cream that lights up the back of the grill and offers a pleasing contrast to the body color.
My body color is Mariner blue and I didn’t think that anything with yellow in it would work good with it. So I made up a bunch of off white sample chips, using black, red, green, blue and finally yellow. And I think the cream created with the touch of yellow tint takes home the prize. When I lay it next to the darker reds, blues, black and even with the lighter colors it just seems to fit.
It’s very difficult to display color tints thru computer graphics but this might give one an idea of what I’m talking about. The tints are over loaded just so I could see how they would compare to each other, In the real application they would be much more subtle than they appear: http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/138080990/large
I’ve also put a narrow strip to see how it would work as the belt strip in Medium Cream.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny,
I went through this a few years ago and finally came across a reference for it in a column in the VCCA mag from the AD tech rep, ( I think you'll know who I mean.) He had cross referenced it to a 1977 Subaru white called Plaza White. I don't have the can here with me so I can't get the number off hand. It's a fairly stark white, sort of like milk. It matched real well to the original white on my '50 and the traces of white still on the '51 grill. If I remember correctly, you didn't disassemble your grill to reveal any white behind the outer bars.
And no, I haven't finished the '51 yet. I really have to get going on it again, I can't seem to find time for it right now.

Bob

Oh it's dissasembled, after it was chemically dipped. http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/grill&page=all Most of the white was still on it when I sent it up to the stripper but what was out in the open was real faded so no, I didn't get a good read on the color on the riveted flange. I didn't think I'd have that much of a problem coming up with the color. I will give my PPG dealer a call this morning and see if they can come up with a number for that vehicle. If they can I'll run over to Aurora and puck up a pint.
So now I'm just waiting for the rivets and rivet squeezer which should be here sometime next week. That's why I really want to get going on and finish up the white. Gonna do that today one way or another cuz I want the paint to be a few days old before I reassemble it. Got out the Cleco's from my airplane building days and I'm all set cept for the Waldorf White.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

The man asked, “What did you get done on your Stovbolt today???” Well I spent the morning and early afternoon chasing down this dang elusive grill paint.
And thanks to the clue that Bob gave us, found this:
1977 Subaru Plaza White, panit code 21, 21W, Ditzler (PPG) 90096.
I called several Subaru dealers and their records didn't go back thirty five years. One of them gave me the Subaru America customer service number and after getting passes on by a half dozen machines I finally got to talk to a real person. She had to put me on hold for a while so she could check with a different department but did come back with the paint code of 121.
Called my first dealer and he doesn't handle DAR, Delstar any more and was pushing Omni. I said yeah, it’s half the price but it takes twice as much to get the same coverage as the Delstar so it comes out the same price wise but with double the labor. I tried another dealer up north and she was able to mix me up a pint.
I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet because the weather was down in the 30's most of the morning and this afternoon it’s only up to a bit over 40°F and I‘m shooting outside. Hoping it will warm up to 60° by supper time and I'll give it a shot then.

Thanks Bob for gettin' back to me with that tip,

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

....and Denny, we would expect no less from you than your very best!!
Now, when you get that riveter gizmo and start putting in those rivets remember this old boy down south wants to see apic of that to for future reference. I know you'll have pics but hey, I had to find something to bug you with!
Missed you and Pete in Kansas.

Thought I was talkin’ to my self here for a while Alvin. We missed going to KC this year also buddy. Mostly my fault, I think if I'd have started back on my '50 a month earlier this summer I would have been ready, I know Pete was was ready to lead the way. I took a real bad hit with my retirement fund this summer, I should have listened to my accountant, that‘s my “big old wife” you know, and moved into something a little safer. So I’ve had to tighten the belt a little this year. I'm a for sure next year and I think Pete's gonna take a run at his '53 GMC this winter and the way he works I'll bet he's got it on the road next spring.

Yep, the paints dryin' and I've managed to keep the fly's away for a few hours till it's tack free. Should go back together just as it was from the factory as soon as the rivets get here. http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/138091682/large

All I got left now is to get the major dings, dents and screw holes patched up on the two front fenders, get some paint on them an I'll have the front clip back on. Might even be able to make it to a few of the cruise nights before the cold weather sets in.
I didn't have the hood stripped when I had the rest of the clip done so as soon as she's parked for the winter I'll run that up to the stripper. That will complete everything mechanically and body wise from the firewall forward and I mean everything.
Think I’m gonna clear a pathway after supper and see if I can find one of those fenders back there in the pile. I still got a couple of hours before Letterman comes on and I have to hit the hay.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny,
I'm looking forward to seeing your "riveting" process also. If I remember right on mine, some of the holes were just too "tight" accessability wise, and I didn't want to risk damage to the paint. I ended up using those "locker" bolts the vendors sell for the inner to outer grill bars. I believe it would be easier to assemble the inner and outer bars together first, then add them to the frame.
Don't know if it's necessary or paranoia, but I ran a thin bead of clear silicone between the inner and outer bars when I assembled them. I remember seeing somewhere that it would cut down the chance for a "squeak" to eminate from the grill. If the rivets/bolts are tight. it's probably not an issue anyways.
Hope the white worked out for ya.

Bob

Yes, gonna rivet the front and back bars first. Nothing was in between from the factory
so nothing is going in there now. And I did find a bunch of the original rivets that you
could wiggle and/or turn with you hand so they did loosen up over time probably from
vibration:.
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/138105586/large
This is what the Plaza White looks like in a partial assembly in the sun light or rather
cloud light, not much sun today:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/138105592/large

Waiting on UPS right now, the rivets are supposedly on the truck for delivery today.
I’ve ordered a 3” yoke on the squeezer hoping that it will access a good portion of the
rivets. I’m sure I’m going to have to rework the tooling some or even make some
special dies to get at the back side of the bars so it may take a couple of days to get
this part finished up.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Think I might need to move this out of this thread cuz I’m gettn’ pretty far off the path. I’m turning a paint discussion thread into a grill restoration thread. So I’m leavin’ it now, but I think Bob steered us in the right direction as far as the inner bar color. It does look like it would be a correct offset to the Waldorf White that GM used. My grill on a scale of 1 to 10 was about a 9, she had a small ding the center of one of the lower front bars and a couple of ¼” holes punched with an awl into the corners of the upper bar to string wires for a siren on one side and a red light on the other.
I still had most of the original Waldorf White on the back bars although it was pretty badly faded to a flat finish and worn thin from being blasted for a half century by red dirt, gravel roads and enough bugs that she’s probably helped to made some extinct. This is the only half way decent picture that I have of it before it went to the stripper. I didn’t disassemble it before hand so I didn’t get a chance to see what was between the flanges, that probably would have been a pristine example of Waldorf White. Any way, it was defiantly just off white not a creamy color. http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/123174448
When you match up the samples that I made up it looks like you could come real close to the PPG Delstar Plaza White by using Valspar Tractor & Implement paint that I got at Farm & Fleet. Price would be about 10 times less. http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/138125258

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I picked up a rattle can of Rustoleum Gloss Canvas White today as a potential match for Waldorf White.

Here's a pic of one of the original uprights that still had original paint with some Canvas White shot next to it (lower part of the picture is original paint.) Also a shot of the can with the Rustoleum PN.

For less than $5 a can, I think it's close enough to use on my inner grille bars.

I agree that it’s a very close match. I’ll try Walmart tomorrow to see if they stock it.

Thanks!

I found it at Lowes. Looked at Walmart, but didn't find it there.

Near perfect! Denny Graham spent all that time researching and your can of Rustoleum might be just as close! Thanks to both of you!