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After stupidly selling my first truck a little over a year ago, I found another one. It is a 46 1 1/2 ton its got a 216 the 2 spd rearend no bed, an awesome grill guard and rust (ugh) but for 150 who cares. It is going to need a complete restoration. My question to you is this. Is it possible to make this beast driveable on a regular basis and still keep alot of the charm? Any ideas about a rearend swap? I have toyed with the idea of getting a 261, but has anyone ever seen one with a diesel? I am think about the feasibility of a cummins? Any ideas? Thanks for the help guys.
Hudson

Agree with Ralphy. When I had my 38 1 1/2 ton tagged people would drift off on the shoulder turning to look. I made the mistake of taking the tags off and removing grain body to do cab work and havn't gotten to it yet. The 216 with 20inch tires is capable of 50 to 55 mph so sit back enjoy the cruise. When I get the brakes working on the 54 it's going to be drive time.

Thanks guys, It is a very good chance that I may do that.
Hudson

Like Hudson, I'd sure like to learn more about the feasability of replacing the rear-end with something that would easily do 65, and -maybe- a 350 for my 47 first series. It's probably not something I'd do right away, but as things broke, it'd be neat to hear what the options are. No changes to the exterior tho, just stock there...

My opinion is that a rear end swap would be great, I want the truck to look the same in every way, but I like to be able to drive stuff as much as possible and because of where I live in fort worth most of the time to go anywhere I need to get on the freeway, and we all know that Texas drivers are really fast.
Hudson

Hudson,

Ralphy and the boys are right on -- you might try just fixing it up as is and driving it for awhile to enjoy it before you start doing things that aren't so easy to undo -- especially a rear end swap.

Remember, that ole 216 (or 235 for that matter) cranks out only about 90 HP. If you start throwing taller gear ratios at it (with a newer rear end), you're going to overload that old babbit pounder real fast. If you upgrade the rear end, you'll have to upgrade the front (motor). And once you do that, then you're talking higher speeds, so you'll want to (have to) upgrade your brakes, too, as well as your steering. It's one thing to go faster, it's another to go faster and live.

See where this is headed?

Putting diesel in it is a great idea, but then you have to upgrade the radiator, front suspension and also the brakes and rear end -- great if you want to spend the money and have the resources -- in fact I am seriously considering doing that with my ton and a half -- finding a Cummins out of a junked Dodge, but I am intimidated by the electronics and other mods I will have to make.

For what it's worth, there's an article in the Tech Tips section on just this subject (Restoring Big Trucks). Even though I wrote it, there might actually be something there you find helpful in deciding what you are going to do. Just use the menu bar at the top of this page, click on "Tech Tips" and scroll down until you find the article.

If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask -- we're all in this together.

Regards,
John

John
thanks for the reply, the electronics dont intimidate me at all, I work with electronic motors and I have a good friend who knows cummins, the only problem is money. I guess I am really just dreaming outloud, I would love to do the cummins but being that I am 18 and in college and working full time and trying to finish my Hudson project. I really think that the truck will be stock. At some point I would love to make one a flatbed trailer puller to pull my car, and in that case it would have to be a cummins or something close. But who knows.
Thanks guys.
Hudson

I've got a 51 1-1/2T Chev. Like My50trk and Dan S, I wonder if there is a possible rearend swap, like a more modern dually, of course, entire rear end. If so, specificly what, or which, rear end(s)? Presently mine has a 216 Babbitt pounder, the rear end is a 6.17, or thereabouts, and with 20 inch tires(rim size), I'm turning about 2600 rpm at 45 mph, and about 7-8 psi oil pressure. Needless to say at 45 this will not go on forever, nor very long either, 60mph would, no doubt, prove to be a religious experience of the most profane kind, speaking for myself only. Thus a different engine would be a logical assumption, but coupled with a numerically lower rear end ratio. The question, then, as posed also by the two previous guys and myself, is what rear end(s), specifically would work?

rot

This topic brings to mind some questions which may or may not have come up before:
1) Are there any O/D units, or aux transmissions that bolt up to the transmission in a 40's/50's 11/2 or 2 ton Chevy(or GMC)?
2) Aren't there any gear sets available for the 2 speed rear ends?
3) Would the suspension and frame on a 2 ton be stoudt enough for a diesel?
4) What is the normal cruise rpm supposed to be on a diesel at say, 60 mph?
5) There must be some GM diesels we could use?
(I'd hate to have to forever explain why my Chevy has a "Dodge" engine!!)
Lots of questions but this kind of thing opens up Pandora's box if you're not careful.
Thanks.

64 pete:

as a general rule, diesels want to spin slower than the gas engines we've got in these things. there are exceptions, but for the most part, this is the way it goes with truck engines.

a GM 6.2/6.5 might keep up with those old 216s i'd guess, but prob not a modern built 235/261. and they're HEAVY.

that being said, i've always liked the idea myself. cummins is a nice way to go. besides, it's not a DODGE engine (tho my daily driver cars have tended to be dodge), it's...... a generator engine, bulldozer engine, motorhome/bus engine... dodge just beat us to putting it into a 'normal' truck i guess.

i've looked at the diagrams for the 2-speed rear on my 2-ton - hell if i wanna swap gearsets in that thing even if there WAS another option! the books refer to a few diff ones, the 6.40/8.72 seems to be the 'nicest' for highway driving, and most common for the 1.5/2 ton.

i'd really like an external overdrive, stuck behind the trans. y settle for just throttle, gearshift, and 2-speed lever? MORE shifting!!

If I am not mistaken, Cummings is owned by F***. It just happens that D**** happened to use them first. I used to operate a F*** 16 Ton crane truck that had a Detroit diesel. Detroit is General Moters Division and even says so on the Valve covers. I dont know what size that engine was, but it would run that crane at 60 mph all day long and wasnt overly complicated with computer junk.
Ralph

Well, another '46 ton-and-a-half!

Glad you stepped up to the real world of 'Bolts.

You can certainly do whatever you like, but money and time are evil twins that frustrate just about everyone.

Even if you bump up the speed, brakes, etc. etc. you will still have a big 'ol truck that won't fit in a parking space, won't turn on a dime, and has limited visibility to the sides and rear. Sometime, less is more.

Even in city driving situations (and Lord knows I've driven my '46 ton-and-a-half in too many cities to count--Sou. Cal. Orange County, Tucson, Phoenix, Lubbock and Austin, though as little as possible) I am an advocate of go slow, let 'em go around you, smile, and enjoy the flowers.

By the way, if you are driving a 1946 Chevrolet one-and-a-half ton truck, why are you in such a hell of a hurry, anyway?

Ralphy - a P30? Are you talking a big box truck? That would be like driving a motorhome I would think?

I have an 86 C70 with 24,000 GVW that is a dream at 65mph - BUT! Airbrakes, 10.00x20 tires and 366 gasser and 4spd Allison + 2spd rear make a huge difference.

Anyone wanting to run those speeds in a 41..55 big truck first needs to try to turn it at 45 mph with a little load in an avoidance manuever without crapping your pants. . . then go over a little bump and try to keep your head from denting the ceiling . . . then pull off on a gravel road and hit a good size pothole at 5mph without getting your arm ripped off.

If you can execute AND enjoy this experience you are certifiable!

Thanks guys great responses all of them, it gives me a lot of stuff to think about, I dont really know which way I will go at the moment, the first step is to pull the beast apart and I will start that tonight if I can find the handle for the jack. Thanks again.
Hudson

Thanks for the remarks.
There are some issues I've probably been under estimating.
Mostly the actual driving charactoristics of one of these big 'ol trucks.
I admit to not a lot of experience in trucks.
I'm down to three 64 Chevelles(from five),
I'm just disgusted with the whole late model truck/SUV thing, and decided I'd be happier and maybe money ahead by going back to an older truck.
A 64 Chevy truck of some sort makes sense given my history with the 64's. Just wasn't sure what.
Thing is the big trucks in the 60's are, well... big!
But I wanted something bigger than a 1/2 ton pickup.
Then I started getting interested in the 2 ton trucks from the 40's as they were big but not hugh. Now COE's have caught my attention.
Maybe I'll reset my sights on something slightly smaller like a one ton LWB panel truck.
If you're thinking "been there, done that" in regards to dumping the new stuff and going back to older trucks I'd be interested in hearing from you.
Thanks.

i think daimlerchrysler owns Detroit Diesel these days. should be one of their 'little' motors showing up in the jeep liberty soon

as for y anyone would want to do 65 in these beasts..... yes, i'll definitely say 20 miles of the way home with my '59 2-ton was the most fun 20 miles since i had the '55 chevy street racer. and i only hit 50 a couple times when traffic absolutely demanded it.

but, that's what it's all about - what modern traffic calls for. i don't mind people going around me all day, and they sure as hell understand they have to when they see what's in front of them. but, in a couple of spots, for a few miles at a time maybe, it just makes the diff between being able to drive it and not.

my goal when i get to putting the '59 back together is to be able to hit 55 for 5 min or so, whenever i need. that covers the short hops of real highway (where people do 70-75 most of the time) i need to cross a couple bridges on the beltway around DC. i can take slow roads before and after, but a trip WAY out of my way to take a ferry instead of the direct route just ain't gonna happen.

so keep 'em original - but do the important stuff right, and if you can get a few more winds out of the drive train when needed, you're probably set. even when they were NEW these things weren't all meant for the long highway trips we take for granted these days

I don't know what Ralhy's P30 is, but my P30 is a motorhome. 454/400 turbo, duals, 12,300 GVW. It handles like its floating on beach balls.

Interesting topic. Sykotec probably hit what I would like to have the closest. As a rule here in Denver, 45 mph is fine and is all I would need anyways, but there are a few stretches of highway I can't easily avoid, and it sure would be nice to be able to climb some of these hills loaded. I probably wouldn't go the deisel route unless someone left one in my driveway as a gift, but I've been giving more thought to the possibility of the 350 swap. It would kind of hold the original character as opposed to those rotten loud deisels, but more importantly be functional. I'd probably be interested in the drivetrain upgrade, but want to leave the suspension and brakes, keeping in mind that it would be driven like it was stock 90% of the time.

<< Originally posted by Dan S:
I probably wouldn't go the deisel route unless someone left one in my driveway as a gift, but I've been giving more thought to the possibility of the 350 swap. It would kind of hold the original character as opposed to those rotten loud deisels, but more importantly be functional. <<

I can't see that throwing in a 350 is keeping the original charactor. A straight six gas engine or maybe a 4 or 6 cyl diesel.
I've joined that small? legion of folks tired of seeing a 350 under the hood of most anything with wheels.
Some diesels are noisier than others, the ***** clatter really bad, GM V-8 so-so.
I've been hearing some first generation Dodge trucks running around with custom exhaust and they have that familar Inline 6 sound.
Sounds good! Especially from a stack.
I don't think we've heard enough about smaller GM diesels.
I was at the Macungie,Pa truck show and saw an International truck and a big Blazer with 3 cyl GM diesels in them.
The International had a 5 speed tranny, 3 speed aux transmission, and a Hi/Lo transfer case.
A lot of gearing!

my turn. i think the cummins option really isn't too bad. the first ones offered in the dodges were basically mechanical, with a computer used mostly as a rev limiter. good option for an old c.o.e.. IF. you remember the cummins weighs a bloody ton, and the swap will require heavier springs--which will reduce body roll, and some of the handling problems. still, the words of caution about brakes are indeed wise. as far as the diff goes, if you have the 10 bolt rims, the rims from a 3500 chevy dually will bolt on. the tire size is 19.5, but the tires are slightly smaller than 10.00x20's. as far as speeds go, if you just go with a cummins, and not change to trans to overdrive, you will lose top end. big truck 6 cyls. usually runs out of poop (rpm's) at about 1,950. there is alittle more rpms in a gas engine, but not near the torque and power. how about the possibility of something simple and maybe easy? does anyone know if the late model 5 speed manual trans. from a 1 ton g.m. will bolt up to the bellhousing on a bolt? i know those trannies are designed to bolt to a crossmember, but ought to hold up just fine with the direct bolt, and there's a question about tranny length and u-joint compatibility. if that swap could work, then ya got an honest 62 mph or so truck, without rippin' much apart. as far as the diff swap goes, well, there ain't much to it, as long as the spring perches are the same width.

hey there poobah, we ought to get together by private message or e-mail and work out the options here and update the tech section---don'tcha think?

My50trk,

check this site out:

http://www.cutsoldtrucks.com

-W